England v Italy

[An Tarbh]

thank goodness for that, FT.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

lol not only did Bergamasco flounder ... this stupid decision resulted in the loss of their premiere fly-half... Oh well experiment over time to go back to Reality.

 

[gingergenius]

Oh dear.

Anyone who is Welsh, I will make lots of fun and sheep jokes if we even get within 10 points of you next week.

England base their game plan on route 1 ball carrying, set piece dominance and solid kicking.

1.
The forwards, with the exception of Haskell, do not make ground ball carrying.

Then the ball goes to the backs. Which is ineveitably a miss-pass to Noon smashing up the middle. So then you need quick ball out to the more creative backs who can polish off a disorganised defence.

But we get slow ball, and it nearly always goes to a forward. Or it gets kicked. If it does get to someone with half an imagination, they recieve it standing still with about 3 ft of space.

2.
We clearly cannot scrum any longer... even Vickery & White were being taken apart.

Our lineout is the only bright spark, thanks largely to Kennedy.

3.
Goode's kicking from hand was poor. Armitage wasn't much better. Goode's ground kicking was poor.

------------------------------

So we need to change our gameplan, or work out a way that we can make it effective. Plus:

Something is very seriously wrong with the front row in terms of scrummaging.

I'm getting more and more convinced that Borthwick isn't up to it.

To all you haters of Harry Ellis.. Foden had a shocker when he came on. Care needs to be wheeled back quickly but Ellis is a decent backup.

We need to find a 10, but I said Geraghty and he was as bad as Foden when he came on.

I'm fed up with Jamie Noon, can we please have Matthew Tait. And Flutey is still unconvincing.

The back 3 is currently irrelevant because they aren't involved in the game at all. Speedy, I know you're looking for any oppurtunity to lambast Sackey but tell me what a winger (especially one who is there to finish off tries) is supposed to do in a game where the ball never gets past the centres? We might as well pick a back 3 who act as fielders and returners of kicks, because that's about all we're asking ours to do at the moment.

 

[Hall]

Poor from England, worse from Bergamasco.

 

[An Tarbh]

to all of you Ellis lovers though, you're gonna go nowhere if you insist on starting him against proper opposition.

 

[Camberabero]

I can see just one good thing from this match......
we cannot play worse than we did today !!!

england deserved the win beacuse they scored every assist we gave them :-D
poor Mauro played the worst match of his career because of Mallett's mad science.....

lack of focus from the beginning by the azzurri....poor lineouts.....poor front row....
no idea of any gameplan, we always play slow balls.....

cannot see any improvements in short time....and either in long terms :-(

hope that italian pride will be shown very soon by our heroes

forza italrugby !!

 

[Hall]

I don't think anyone wants Ellis to start.

 

[monkeypigeon]

I'd love Ellis to start against Ireland.

 

[An Tarbh]

well given what we saw at Croker I'd rather he didn't and that we get a decent match cause God help 82500 people if they get served up what those at Twickenham got today.

 

[shazbooger]

Its weird really. Totally dominant on the scoreboard but anything but on the pitch.

I sympathise with the English fans on this. Head scratching a plenty to work out whats going wrong.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Feb 2 2009, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That is a great pint. We seem to preume we will low sides like this awaycs we are England butthe reality is we are now in the 2nd level of interational rugby along with Scotland and Ireland.[/b]

Not any more :lol:

A shocking shocking match. Shocking. I am shocked.

Delon and Kennedy were pretty good, but the only real bright spot for England was Haskell - and even he went and did a Worsley "could I be more stupid? give me yellow!!!!" **** up.

Italy were just taking the ****.

I would have been even more shocked, except I fell asleep at half time.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 7 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Feb 2 2009, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a great pint. We seem to preume we will low sides like this awaycs we are England butthe reality is we are now in the 2nd level of interational rugby along with Scotland and Ireland.[/b]

Not any more :lol:

A shocking shocking match. Shocking. I am shocked.

Delon and Kennedy were pretty good, but the only real bright spot for England was Haskell - and even he went and did a Worsley "could I be more stupid? give me yellow!!!!" **** up.

Italy were just taking the ****.

I would have been even more shocked, except I fell asleep at half time.
[/b][/quote]

at least then you didn't have to endure the rubbish we were served up in the second half. Never have I looked at the match clock and wanted it to be over more than I did today.

 

[Fa'atau82]

My ratings:

England: 5/10. Insipid play, zero invention and did well to actually win. You know it's bad when you win by 5 tries and still feel like you could have lost.

15 Delon Armitage 8/10. Looked lively but mostly bored. Didn't have a bad game, apart from that knock-on from the chargedown.
14 Paul Sackey 7/10. Anonymous. To be fair, he never really got the ball, and he plays off the scraps, but didn't even get those today.
13 Jamie Noon 7/10. Well, he's consistent. He rarely does anything, other than give some big hits.
12 Riki Flutey 7/10. Anonymous. Scored a try, so credit for that but otherwise was invisible.
11 Mark Cueto 8/10. My MoTM. Scored a decent try, but nothing spectacular.
10 Andy Goode 7/10. Got some points on the board but lacked any authority and played an insipid ping-pong game.
9 Harry Ellis 7/10. Scored a brace of opportunist tries, so credit where credits due. The problem with Ellis is that he shows no urgency for quick ball at all, and actually extinguishes any kind of attacking play by slowing down the service so much that it's clear or misspass to Noon.
8 Nick Easter 7/10. Nothing special.
7 Steffon Armitage 7/10. Felt sorry for Stef, he is a dynamic ball carrier and never got the ball or much opportunity to show his value.
6 James Haskell 6/10. Jekyll and Hyde. Carries England one moment, and destroys them the next with stupidity.
5 Nick Kennedy 7/10. Always impressed with Nick, solid lineout. Does what it says on the tin.
4 Steve Borthwick 6/10. There was no leadership today. Nothing. Zip. Zilcho. Nada. Nothing.
3 Phil Vickery 6/10. Past it, and looks unable to hack it anymore at test level.
2 Lee Mears 7/10. Nothing special.
1 Andrew Sheridan 7/10. Solid as ever, but unremarkable.

Replacements:
16 Dylan Hartley n/a. Didn't see enough of him to comment.
17 Julian White n/a. Didn't see enough of him to comment.
18 Tom Croft 6/10. No chance to make an impression.
19 Joe Worsley 4/10. The only impact he made was to make Italy look like the All Blacks.
20 Ben Foden 3/10. Absolute shocker. Not cut out for test level. Weak link. Not as bad as Mauro, but
21 Shane Geraghty 3/10. Did nothing but get himself sin-binned and then disappeared.
22 Mathew Tait n/a. Didn't see enough of him to comment.

Italy:

Guilio Toniolatti 6/10. Didn't make a fool of himself at 9. Must wonder why he was benched for a flanker.
Mauro Bergamasco 10/10. Full marks for loyalty and professionalism. Played where Mallett asked him, and did an awful job, but what did you expect? Might as well put Matt Dunning at 10.

 

[An Tarbh]

slightly harsh on Haskell, thought he was one of the few England players who had a decent game but soured by his stupid yellow card. Sackey was caught out defensively which could cost you in the matches to come.

 

[Fa'atau82]

I hate cynical fouls, or fouls that are just embarrasing to watch from a pro rugby player.. that's why i cricitised Haskell. Haskell is a quality player, but lets himself down after he's done all the hard work.. and in rugby, you take the other 14 with you.. more so that a game like soccer IMHO. Sure, we all get sin-binned from time to time, but i just don't like cheating and cynical fouls, not in rugby.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

I'd sake same squad for next week, but with Noon at inside center and Tait outside him and Flood (if fit?) or Cipriani at fly half.
I'd have given Foden a chance on the wing or at fullback even before putting him into scrum half, the Italian back row were just good enough to give a startled young scrum half a bad game.

Italians were disheartened by the game being lost in the first few minutes but I think they could do better next week with few less wildcard decisions.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa'atau82 @ Feb 7 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I hate cynical fouls, or fouls that are just embarrasing to watch from a pro rugby player.. that's why i cricitised Haskell. Haskell is a quality player, but lets himself down after he's done all the hard work.. and in rugby, you take the other 14 with you.. more so that a game like soccer IMHO. Sure, we all get sin-binned from time to time, but i just don't like cheating and cynical fouls, not in rugby.[/b]

fair enough, I've been the same in the past with Flannery and Worsley. I'm sure there's others that come to mind.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Feb 7 2009, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'd sake same squad for next week, but with Noon at inside center and Tait outside him and Flood (if fit?) or Cipriani at fly half.
I'd have given Foden a chance on the wing or at fullback even before putting him into scrum half, the Italian back row were just good enough to give a startled young scrum half a bad game.

Italians were disheartened by the game being lost in the first few minutes but I think they could do better next week with few less wildcard decisions.[/b]

Is he going to bring Cipriani back in though having had no game this week, what would have changed from initally leaving him out to starting him in Cardiff?

 

[Hall]

Haskell was good today, got a few turnovers and his urgency led to Harry Ellis' second try. Kennedy was also very good, at least we have one lock who can play.

 

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 7 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

thank goodness for that, FT.[/b]

I have predicted England's victory over Italy yes!!!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Congrats