England Six Nations Squad 2025

[Jimbo]

Apparently he's carrying a knee injury that's not too bad (mild enough to play through), and has gotten a shoulder injury that's gonna keep him out for the 6N - neither require surgery, so it's almost a good thing for his knee that his shoulder is borked!

No word of a call up - hopefully they do call someone up if only just to hold tackle bags and learn some systems - would imagine Hill is just gonna be third lock for the remaining two games

Hopefully he's not going to be permanently broken like Manu, is if just coincidence or do we have terrible luck with physical specimens and their injury's, don't recall other nations having it in the same way.

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Borthwick was having a dig back / defending his corner in today's press.

Reading a Times article the Queen's "recollections may vary" sprang to mind. But anyhow, it's clear that relationship isn't where it should be right now. And let's not forget the player who's likely now not to feature for club, country or BIL and has found himself in a horrible situation between paymasters with more media attention than he'd ever have wanted.

Should have declared for Wales and this wouldn't have happened….

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What's Ben Ryan up to?

 

[BrokenWing]

Probably watching telly

 

[IT157]

Marcus Smith is too good to not have in the England squad.

Fin Smith is a more controlling flyhalf. I just think England look more balanced and controlled when he's in that flyhalf position compared to Marcus. Marcus is more individually brilliant and more likely to make something out of nothing. I also think he has done fine at fullback.

Once Furbank comes back from injury it will be interesting to see how they juggle between the three.

Honestly not the worst problem to have these talented players. It is utilising them correctly. I know people have doubts with the coaching staff for obvious reasons. We shall see how it plays out. Hopefully a couple of good convincing performances against Wales and Italy. Although I can see a potential upset against Wales.

 

[Geordie]

He's bigger than Savea.

But he's v young and way down the pecking order. So I'm really not particularly that concerned and to date from what I've seen it's mostly been fine, not wow.

Willis and Earl should be around for some while and bearing in mind the increased physicality of the international game I'd absolutely be having CCS as the next cab off the rank.

Is he? Surely not.. although Savea is a 7 not an 8

 

[Geordie]

No game this week though (I did have to double check that, tbf ) so things like that likely won't play into next round's selections

Not sure. Tom Curry needs to be managed. Willis might not pass the HIA...so we could be without both. Ben Curry is well worth the 7 spot so it's just finding an 8

 

[BPM]

Marcus Smith is too good to not have in the England squad.

Fin Smith is a more controlling flyhalf. I just think England look more balanced and controlled when he's in that flyhalf position compared to Marcus. Marcus is more individually brilliant and more likely to make something out of nothing. I also think he has done fine at fullback.

Once Furbank comes back from injury it will be interesting to see how they juggle between the three.

Honestly not the worst problem to have these talented players. It is utilising them correctly. I know people have doubts with the coaching staff for obvious reasons. We shall see how it plays out. Hopefully a couple of good convincing performances against Wales and Italy. Although I can see a potential upset against Wales.

I've seen a lot of similar statements and at this point, I find it hard to see what this is really based upon?

Fin's had two starts and has looked individually good. He's been composed, solid in defence and kicked well, but as far as the 'balanced and controlled' piece and 'bringing others into the game' etc, I think that only really describes the second half against France.

Against Scotland, we made no real attempt to play rugby so it's hard to judge, but in any case two games is way too small a sample size to make such definitive statements - particularly given how those two games played out.

Considering how well Marcus has played at times, the hype over Fin's performances is quite insulting. Marcus plays 10 in a string of defeats (during which he was often our best player) and gets shoddy treatment. Fin's done well in 1.5 games and apparently he's definitively, 100% the difference between winning and losing.

I just think we need to see more of Fin at 10 before we can confidently say he's the answer.

 

[BPM]

Not sure. Tom Curry needs to be managed. Willis might not pass the HIA...so we could be without both. Ben Curry is well worth the 7 spot so it's just finding an 8

Hopefully Willis is OK. If not, I think CCS probably comes in at 6 with Earl going back to 8 and Ben Curry coming in at 7.

On the subject of Ben Curry - I think it's fair to say he's properly 'arrived' at test level now. He now looks much more like the player he is at Sale and it's good to see him becoming a genuine option rather than a bit of an afterthought.

 

[Which Tyler]

I've seen a lot of similar statements and at this point, I find it hard to see what this is really based upon?

Without going into the anti-Marcus sentiments, which TBH, I haven't really seen (I suspect it's on twatter, facebook, insta etc - where it's nicely hidden from my view)...
I can answer this one for you. It's based on how each of them play for their club, how Marcus plays for England, and what we've seen of of how Finn plays for England.

Obviously, it's way too early to hail Finn as the new messiah (not that that's ever stopped anyone before, for any player); but it's absolutely fair and valid to see what Marcus does at Quins, and what Finn does at Saints, and prefer the latter.
It's also fair and valid to prefer the former.


ETA: and to prove the lie to my first sentence above...
This is NOT Ford v Farrell, where one was potentially world class in all aspects, and one only in attitude, but lacking in skills and vision.
Marcus v Finn is 2 potentially world class talents, both currently let down by one aspect that should improve with international game time.
IMO Marcus has shown progress towards addressing his weakness - but he's also got 44 caps and well over 2400 international minutes (not to mention 170+ and >12,000 at club), he really should have by now.

FTR: I also appreciate that Marcus fans who are exposed to whatever bullshit is being thrown about on antisocial media have found themselves going the opposite direction, and become a bit blind to his faults - we've all been there "defending" our man from unwarranted attack - we just lose objectivity.

 

[Geordie]

Hopefully Willis is OK. If not, I think CCS probably comes in at 6

On the subject of Ben Curry - I think it's fair to say he's properly 'arrived' at test level now. He now looks much more like the player he is at Sale and it's good to see him becoming a genuine option rather than a bit of an afterthought.

Yeah happy to bring CCS in.

Totally agree about Ben. He looks very good at this level now. But then wasn't he the one they actually selected first years ago only to get injured and Tom took advantage.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

IMO Marcus has shown progress towards addressing his weakness - but he's also got 44 caps and well over 2400 international minutes (not to mention 170+ and >12,000 at club), he really should have by now.

Which weakness is this that hasn't been addressed?

Marcus a few years ago couldn't really control a game, and he has been unable to shake that reputation, but it isn't reality now imo

 

[Saintjay]

Which weakness is this that hasn't been addressed?

Marcus a few years ago couldn't really control a game, and he has been unable to shake that reputation, but it isn't reality now imo

I don't think it's a Marcus thing. When is the last time England dominated a good team or put in a good 80min display. A performance that made you think wow we look good. Not a loss within 7 or a squeaked win. We seem set up just to be in the arm wrestle and in the fight.

 

[Which Tyler]

Which weakness is this that hasn't been addressed?

Marcus a few years ago couldn't really control a game, and he has been unable to shake that reputation, but it isn't reality now imo

There isn't one.
I deliberately used the words "Marcus has shown progress towards addressing his weakness" - which means that, IMO, it's a work in progress. He is addressing it, but isn't there yet.

Nuance, it's a thing (unless "we've all been there "defending" our man from unwarranted attack - we just lose objectivity"

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

There isn't one.
I deliberately used the words "Marcus has shown progress towards addressing his weakness" - which means that, IMO, it's a work in progress. He is addressing it, but isn't there yet.

Nuance, it's a thing (unless "we've all been there "defending" our man from unwarranted attack - we just lose objectivity"

Which weakness I mean? I'm assuming you mean game control but you've not actually said

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I love Marcus but in tighter game he tries too much on his own and doesn't play his team into the game via kicking us into the correct positions.

But behaviour might all be driven from him playing with England and knowing our gameplan or crap and his inside centre is poor though. But it's obvious Marcus isn't a complete player yet and neither is Fin.

 

[Which Tyler]

Which weakness I mean? I'm assuming you mean game control but you've not actually said

Sorry*, yes, game management, thinking 3-4 phases ahead, vision for what's going on wider than 1 easy pass from himself.
He's improving, but he's not where I would want him to be on these.

I'd also say that he's still too... highly tuned, I guess - in that his needs are a bit too specific - needing the right players around him, and having them on his wavelength - in a way that just doesn't work at international level. Again, not as bad as he was, but again, I'd expect better progress from someone approaching 50 caps (tempered by starting 3/4 of them, not 9/10, and further hampered by how many are at FB, not FH - though I really do think that that game time at FB is a huge help for his wider vision of the game).

* ETA, worth noting that the same discussion has been had many times on here, with the same posters holding the same opinions - if with ever greater tempering on them - because the issues are being addressed, and are a work in progress.

 

[OllyM97]

We've beaten France and Scotland yet I still feel complete indifference towards this side at the moment. I've got other plans on the 9th so I won't be watching the game. I can't say I'm fussed about missing it and I'll probably not record it either. It's the worst game of the 6 Nations every year because Italy rarely play their best game of the Championship against us. Even last year when they ran us close. It still wasn't their best performance.