England Six Nations Squad 2025

[Rugbyfan564]

England to stick with Marcus Smith and Fin Smith for Scotland showdown

Exclusive: Steve Borthwick is poised to stick with the playmakers at fly-half and full-back after success against France

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Flankers' paradise]

Of the new additions...
Who's in there just to hold tackle bags, but is an older guy who's blocking the experience that could have gone to younger?

I may well be missing some, but Shillcock and Pepper have presumably been called up with a view to them actually playing, not just holding tackle bags.
Then there's Jack Bennett (aged 20, Eng U20 2024); Mackenzie Graham (aged 21, Eng U20 2023); Billy Pasco (aged 19, EngU18 2023); Rafe Witheat (aged 19, Eng U18 2024).

If you're saying "they've picked the wrong kids" - then I'm right with you (with the proviso above about mimicking a specific member of the opposition)
If you're saying "picking these kids makes a mockery of the intention to pick kids" then.... yeah, no.

No that's not quite my point but you have sort of proved it. Given that the A team is meant to bridge the gap between u20 and senior rugby whilst giving international exposure to fringe players,
1) Why pick a 27 year old who is clearly never going to play for England as he's 2nd choice at club level and is moving abroad in a few months
2) Why pick kids such as all you mentioned bar Graham who are either still in the u20 grouping or not even gotten to the u20s yet,

Meanwhile there are a host of players who are in that gap of being too old for u20 but not quite there as a senior who fit right into the stated parameters but don't get a look in

 

[Geordie]

So now Brian Moore has weighed in and said there could be something in moving Earl to 12..... here we go.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Autumn matches.
Saturday, November 1 - England v Australia, 3:10pm
Saturday, November 8 - England v Fiji - 5:40pm
Saturday, November 15 - England v New Zealand - 3:10pm
Sunday, November 23 - England v Argentina - 4:10pm

 

[TW27BA]

So rehab didn't work. Hope he is fit soon.

Six Nations: England's Immanuel Feyi-Waboso to miss Six Nations after shoulder surgery

Immanuel Feyi-Waboso will miss the Six Nations after deciding to undergo shoulder surgery.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Rugbyfan564]

So rehab didn't work. Hope he is fit soon.

Six Nations: England's Immanuel Feyi-Waboso to miss Six Nations after shoulder surgery

Immanuel Feyi-Waboso will miss the Six Nations after deciding to undergo shoulder surgery.

www.bbc.co.uk

What a mess.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So rehab didn't work. Hope he is fit soon.

Six Nations: England's Immanuel Feyi-Waboso to miss Six Nations after shoulder surgery

Immanuel Feyi-Waboso will miss the Six Nations after deciding to undergo shoulder surgery.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just for once can we let players properly heal and not try to rush them back...

 

[Becca]

Just for once can we let players properly heal and not try to rush them back...

That's just silly talk

 

[Lé Ddanno]

That's just silly talk

Players studying to be literal doctors (well, one of them) says nah

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Just for once can we let players properly heal and not try to rush them back...

The42.ie has a regular rugby podcast (subscription). A few weeks ago they were discussing Dan Sheehan's return from injury (ACL). The argument was made that because he wasn't rushed back, when he did return to play he was in the best possible shape. How many PRL clubs could do the same thing for a world class front row player?

 

[Which Tyler]

What a mess.

Why?

Player tries to do the right thing - it doesn't work out, and goes for the back-up option.
Where's the mess?

The42.ie has a regular rugby podcast (subscription). A few weeks ago they were discussing Dan Sheehan's return from injury (ACL). The argument was made that because he wasn't rushed back, when he did return to play he was in the best possible shape. How many PRL clubs could do the same thing for a world class front row player?

Bath under JvG maybe, but far from guaranteed.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why?

Player tries to do the right thing - it doesn't work out, and goes for the back-up option.
Where's the mess?

Thing is that surgery was the original Plan A as far as Chiefs were concerned and IIRC IFW himself.

Who knows what the truth is, but the inference is that Eng then muddied the waters. And here we are where we could have been a couple of months ago with the player's chances of a Lions tour pretty much gone.

To those of us looking in from the outside in possession of partial facts it doesn't look a great start for club / country co-operation under central contracts.

 

[West Country Wail]

Thing is that surgery was the original Plan A as far as Chiefs were concerned and IIRC IFW himself.

Who knows what the truth is, but the inference is that Eng then muddied the waters. And here we are where we could have been a couple of months ago with the player's chances of a Lions tour pretty much gone.

To those of us looking in from the outside in possession of partial facts it doesn't look a great start for club / country co-operation under central contracts.

Not great for Exeter at all

 

[Which Tyler]

Thing is that surgery was the original Plan A as far as Chiefs were concerned and IIRC IFW himself.

Who knows what the truth is, but the inference is that Eng then muddied the waters. And here we are where we could have been a couple of months ago with the player's chances of a Lions tour pretty much gone.

To those of us looking in from the outside in possession of partial facts it doesn't look a great start for club / country co-operation under central contracts.

For Exeter - yes - best chance of having him on the pitch for Exeter.
For IFW himself - I don't recall him going public with an opinion - but as the patient, his word is final, whoever's giving him the advice. As a medical student, he's also in a better position to make that decision than any other rugby player (barring practising Drs/physios)
For his health - Rehab is the preferred option 80-90% of the time (determined by "other damage" or recurrence), with surgery the backup plan if you don't get the desired results with rehab (but having those few weeks of rehab improves your chances in surgery).

If England muddied the waters, and ended up with a better decision for his health - I'd call that a win, even if the rationale wasn't altruistic.
For myself - I'm not in possession of the details of this specific case, but the generalities are my job.

Anyone who ever expected the new partnership and central contracts to be a land of milk and honey, and fully agreement over everything - they were living in a dreamworld. The whole reason the RFU wanted this extra say is because they so often disagreed with the clubs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

For Exeter - yes - best chance of having him on the pitch for Exeter.
For IFW himself - I don't recall him going public with an opinion - but as the patient, his word is final, whoever's giving him the advice. As a medical student, he's also in a better position to make that decision than any other rugby player (barring practising Drs/physios)
For his health - Rehab is the preferred option 80-85% of the time, with surgery the backup plan if you don't get the desired results with rehab (but having those few weeks of rehab improves your chances in surgery).

If England muddied the waters, and ended up with a better decision for his health - I'd call that a win, even if the rationale wasn't altruistic.
For myself - I'm not in possession of the details of this specific case, but the generalities are my job.

Anyone who ever expected the new partnership and central contracts to be a land of milk and honey, and fully agreement over everything - they were living in a dreamworld. The whole reason the RFU wanted this extra say is because they so often disagreed with the clubs.

Don't disagree with any of that although there are reports in early Jan saying that IFW had decided to go ahead with surgery, but also one or two that he was still weighing it up. We'll probably never know, but I did post on here a few days back that I was very surprised to find out that IFW hadn't had surgery.

I don't know if this is a medical ethics or contractual / legal point. As you say I'd expect the player to have the final decision on anything to do with their body. But the press widely report SB as "having the final say". Suspect that's fairly loose terminology but does anyone know what that actually means? I'm assuming that means SB can overrule the clubs but not the player but I don't know. Hard to imagine, but could injuries detrimental to rugby performance be carved out in a contract?