England Rugby 2020/21 Thread

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I was one of several posters questioning whether Billy should be dropped but come on now ... seriously ... it's complete rubbish to suggest 'he offers nothing in attack or defence'. That's just totally untrue. Right now he's not in the kind of form to be unchallenged as first choice, but he's still a top player.

I'm all for trying Dombrandt or Simmonds but as I've said numerous times both have their drawbacks too. Mercer is injured so it's a moot point as far he's concerned.

I'm with you re. Hill though. Why are we even proposing to move players into positions they don't play at club level for test rugby?

If you don't think he offers nothing, when was the last time you watched him tackle like CurryHill or carry like errr Mako (we've not got great carriers come to think of it).

But in all seriousness, I don't think he offers anything compared to any of the other players. He's a passenger, he doesn't dominate the tackle or the carry any more and he needs to go away and sort his head out. I've thought he's look poor since his arm injuries. Whether it's a confidence thing or what he needs to be replaced and left to heal.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Any reason why we behave like there's only one Curry? Frankly he's good enough I'd be happy with worrying about balancing having two in the back row.

Wasn't Ben the initial training squad Curry anyway? I get balance and variety and all, but rugby's only complicated when there's a problem and there always is anyway so...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm not a massive fan of Billy either but I do think that his carrying work is underrated by spectators. On this week's 'The Good The Bad and The Rugby' Genge mentioned how much the Italians were celebrating when they'd successfully tackle Billy. So even though he doesn't necessarily make too many metres he's still clearly a major threat that other teams are very wary of and dedicate multiple defenders to.

I'm by no means saying that we shouldn't look for other 8 options but to suggest that Billy offers nothing at international level is a huge overreaction IMO.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Any reason why we behave like there's only one Curry?

To be honest I'm not totally convinced that there aren't 3 of them considering the amount of work they get through.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

To be honest I'm not totally convinced that there aren't 3 of them considering the amount of work they get through.

Who was it put forward the theory that they get switched at half time for England?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm not a massive fan of Billy either but I do think that his carrying work is underrated by spectators. On this week's 'The Good The Bad and The Rugby' Genge mentioned how much the Italians were celebrating when they'd successfully tackle Billy. So even though he doesn't necessarily make too many metres he's still clearly a major threat that other teams are very wary of and dedicate multiple defenders to.

I'm by no means saying that we shouldn't look for other 8 options but to suggest that Billy offers nothing at international level is a huge overreaction IMO.

I mean he doesn't offer anything compared to others. I mean think about it, he doesn't break tackles vs Italy then when is he going to?
I'm not saying he's rubbish (just to clarify) just that his form has been poor for a while and he needs dropping to go away and find it again.

There's nothing he did vs Italy that any other of the 8s or the front 5 could have done really and you could say that about most of his recent caps. At his best he is brilliant but he needs a break.

 

[BPM]

OK - but that's very different to what you said previously ... if that had been your original post, I would have agreed with you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Watson and Singleton injured

Daly, Marler and Mitchell back in

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Watson and Singleton injured

Daly, Marler and Mitchell back in

Any idea if any of the looseheads have dropped out for Marler? Seems a bit unnecessary to have 4 of them in there.

 

[Jashay]

I'd like to see Mitchell get a look in over the Autumn

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Watson and Singleton injured

Daly, Marler and Mitchell back in

And marchant

Was he there anyway? Quins confused me by saying "returned"

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

And marchant

Was he there anyway? Quins confused me by saying "returned"

Was always there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Watson and Singleton injured

Turns out Watson not injured, his first child was born on Wednesday
RFU release doesn't mention Marchant being released (he's named in the squad list) but does say Ford and Wilson are both still in camp rehabbing injuries - presumably means they're expected to be fit at some point in the tournament

Also mentions our new skills coach has arrived after finishing his season with Melbourne Storm

Current EPS:

Forwards
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 24 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 4 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 16 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 19 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 50 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 39 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 65 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 36 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 52 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 60 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, uncapped)
Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 43 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 84 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 51 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 3 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 57 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 3 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 100 caps)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Turns out Watson not injured, his first child was born on Wednesday

Had no idea he has one on the way. Congratulations to him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So excited to see Jason Ryles work with England.

 

[Reiser99]

So excited to see Jason Ryles work with England.

Can he get Farrell to stop doing stupid bomb kicks regardless of the where opposition defence is?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

stupid bomb kicks

He's from rugby league, so it depends how many phases we've just gone through...

I said it before, though - I think that was definitely a gameplan thing rather than a Farrell thing. Slade, Furbank and Youngs all put up high bombs too, and Farrell doesn't do that with Saracens.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He's from rugby league, so it depends how many phases we've just gone through...

I said it before, though - I think that was definitely a gameplan thing rather than a Farrell thing. Slade, Furbank and Youngs all put up high bombs too, and Farrell doesn't do that with Saracens.

100%. I think people would be massively surprised by how much of what players do is game plan/structure and how much is actually down to the player. Those bomb kicks were all game plan.

 

[Reiser99]

He's from rugby league, so it depends how many phases we've just gone through...

I said it before, though - I think that was definitely a gameplan thing rather than a Farrell thing. Slade, Furbank and Youngs all put up high bombs too, and Farrell doesn't do that with Saracens.

I agree too and I have no idea why Jones thought it would work. My issue is that we've seen a few times when the players have clearly stuck to a game plan that isn't working and haven't been confident enough to change or make their own decisions. We scored our first try almost immediately from Farrell running with ball in hand and then we stopped doing it. I've said it before, EJ says he wants heads up rugby, but when I watch England it's almost the opposite. Players who have been told to stick to the tactics no matter what.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree too and I have no idea why Jones thought it would work. My issue is that we've seen a few times when the players have clearly stuck to a game plan that isn't working and haven't been confident enough to change or make their own decisions. We scored our first try almost immediately from Farrell running with ball in hand and then we stopped doing it. I've said it before, EJ says he wants heads up rugby, but when I watch England it's almost the opposite. Players who have been told to stick to the tactics no matter what.

Completely agree with you,
But I also think EJ is the kind of guy to shitcan you if you go against his plan - it's not quite the same but he pulled Burrell off the pitch after about 20mins, before, and then never played him again. He's obviously go no real qualms with holding a grudge for not doing what he wants.