England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean depending on how far forward you also have Josh Hodge and Freddie Steward.

 

[Scotty]

Agree on Malins being the best 15 option going forward. In the modern game a 15 has to be able to act as a playmaker/distributor which Watson just isn't capable of. He's much better on the wing than at 15 IMO. Malins has the raw pace to pose a big threat to defences as an individual and is also an excellent playmaker. He's essentially what Alex Goode would've been if he didn't have the athleticism of a thumb.

100% agree. Now a caveat to that is Malins hasnt had alot of game time and while he has impressed he is as unproven at Furbank on an international stage. Played for bristol the other week and i remember him going missing abit.

His best recent game has been 10 i think he need to choose 15 but then next season will he play ahead of Piutau? His development there could be hinded quite alot at Bristol, obv less so than in the championship unless he was 100% first choice 15 and tearing it up

 

[Scotty]

I mean depending on how far forward you also have Josh Hodge and Freddie Steward.

Josh hodge has talent but has yet to really impress at chiefs in any of his appearances IMO though there hasnt been many

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

100% agree. Now a caveat to that is Malins hasnt had alot of game time and while he has impressed he is as unproven at Furbank on an international stage. Played for bristol the other week and i remember him going missing abit.

His best recent game has been 10 i think he need to choose 15 but then next season will he play ahead of Piutau? His development there could be hinded quite alot at Bristol, obv less so than in the championship unless he was 100% first choice 15 and tearing it up

Furbank's hardly proven at international level either. He's had 2 and he was average to poor in both. Malins is my pick going forward. Enough raw pace to pose a threat to defences as an individual and the playmaking ability required of a 15 in the modern game.

 

[Scotty]

Furbank's hardly proven at international level either. He's had 2 and he was average to poor in both. Malins is my pick going forward. Enough raw pace to pose a threat to defences as an individual and the playmaking ability required of a 15 in the modern game.

No i agree again your really not wrong and by saying 'unproven as Furbank' i mean he is on the level in terms of experience. Malins always impresses me when he plays but he is young and is in experienced and isnt getting constant first choice first team experience meaning picking him for now is a risk but he is one who i expect to be there in the future. Yet would not complain or criticise if he were given a shot.

His running game reminds me of thorley in a wsy. Quick with a mean step but a very balanced runner who is always a threat yet malins has the passing game.

 

[Which Tyler]

I mean depending on how far forward you also have Josh Hodge and Freddie Steward.

Add Tom DeGlanville to that too; ones to keep an eye on and see how they develop as they start demanding club selection

 

[BPM]

No-one is ready to go yet, but it's good there's a crop coming through.

Malins has had horrible luck with injuries but if he can stay fit, I can see him getting plenty of game time at Bristol and by the time Saracens inevitably return, he should be ready to take over from Goode.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Furbank increasingly looks like a rush of blood to Jones head. He's certainly nowhere near ready for international rugby yet.

Our best bet at the moment is Watson. He's not a playmaker, but I'm not wedded to the idea the 15 has to be. With the likes of May, Nowell, Coka, a rejuvenated McConnochie, Thorley and Daly we have plenty of wing options.

If Malins forces his way in through weight of performance then great. But Watson for now.

 

[FLOBALOB]

I think we're potentially going to experiment with a fluid back row made up of 3 flankers where shirt numbers are insignificant. Any combination of Curry, Underhill, Willis and Earl works for me. Without doubt the form quartet IMO. 3 on the pitch, one in the bench.

Sam Simmonds ,for me, has been playing equal too ,if not better than, all of them.

ps why can you post even when you;re not logged in?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think we're potentially going to experiment with a fluid back row made up of 3 flankers where shirt numbers are insignificant. Any combination of Curry, Underhill, Willis and Earl works for me. Without doubt the form quartet IMO. 3 on the pitch, one in the bench.

Jones has a bit of a problem, a nice problem, but a problem nonetheless. There are a lot of very good players in the back row mix. But I would prefer Jones to pick his men and largely stick to them. Of course new talent must be blooded and fed in but, for example, Curry and Underhill with 50 caps in 2023 will be better and more street smart than Curry and Underhill are now with 20 caps. They could be a perfect combination of experience and peak fitness.

That would mean some very good players may miss out internationally. That's fine, internationals are about the very best, not the very good.

I don't have massively strong feelings on who the back row should be - I really like most of them. But while the fluid back row would look brilliant when it works it will be horrible when it doesn't and mean we find it even harder to flex styles mid match than we do now. I much prefer balance - too many 7s or utility players in the back row is just as bad as too many locks.

 

[BPM]

Sam Simmonds ,for me, has been playing equal too ,if not better than, all of them.

ps why can you post even when you;re not logged in?

I'm a fan of Simmonds, but I don't think he's been equal to or better than Curry or Earl and comparing to Underhill is not exactly apples and apples.

Not sure what you're talking about with the log in.

 

[Scotty]

Furbank increasingly looks like a rush of blood to Jones head. He's certainly nowhere near ready for international rugby yet.

Our best bet at the moment is Watson. He's not a playmaker, but I'm not wedded to the idea the 15 has to be. With the likes of May, Nowell, Coka, a rejuvenated McConnochie, Thorley and Daly we have plenty of wing options.

If Malins forces his way in through weight of performance then great. But Watson for now.

Jones seems to like Slade at 15 he's played there a few times(not a suggestion going forward dw). Daly there too, both were playmakers. So he likes a playmaker there and believe Malins is currently the best young option but very inexperienced. Furbank wasnt a mistake as he was on form and had potential but not on good form so needs to find it to have a chance.

Cant wait till big Joe is back but at whos expense?

Feel bad for Mcconnechie because out of them i see him as last choice. Behind May Watson Nowell and then qBig Joe can be something special when he gets back to form.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd put all our current wingers (inc. McConnochie) ahead of Cokanasiga tbh,

He's v.v.young though, so worth investigating time in because he does look to have a high ceiling and offers something different to all our other options

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Coka needs to get fit and stay fit.

If he can then he's a threat against anyone if we use him properly. Once he's back and firing let's not wait for him to become a complete footballer or be too worried about work rate. He's a potential game breaker with a USP, so let's pick him for what he can do and compensate elsewhere if needs be. Like May his all round game will develop over time if he's given the chance and invested in.

Spencer, Ford/Faz, May, Manu, Slade, Coka, Watson really would have pretty much everything you want. An upgrade at 9, an experienced 10 as one of two playmakers, pace and power. Watson and May are both pretty good in the air and Coka should get there too. May need a bit of defensive drilling, but opposition defence coaches would have plenty to think about.

 

[BPM]

I'm not convinced Cokanasiga is good enough to justify an approach where we 'compensate elsewhere'.

He may get there, but until he's fit and his form warrants his selection, I wouldn't even entertain dropping May or Watson as our (justifiably) preferred wingers.

Right now, McConnochie and Thorley are the form wingers at the moment and I would have no problem giving either/both a game vs. Italy or Georgia. When it comes to Ireland or Wales though, I'd be going for May and Watson.

 

[Scotty]

I'm not convinced Cokanasiga is good enough to justify an approach where we 'compensate elsewhere'.

He may get there, but until he's fit and his form warrants his selection, I wouldn't even entertain dropping May or Watson as our (justifiably) preferred wingers.

Right now, McConnochie and Thorley are the form wingers at the moment and I would have no problem giving either/both a game vs. Italy or Georgia. When it comes to Ireland or Wales though, I'd be going for May and Watson.

May was just quick when he started for England and massivly developed. If we have the likes of May Watson Nowell then take Joe as a project(not this Autumn obv) is not really as risk but i dont think McConnechie will ever be first choice for England and especially not going forward. If he gets some gametime for Bath then the 6N 2021 id like to see him given a shot. Thorley does deserve a shot though he is a class player.

 

[Which Tyler]

May was just quick when he started for England and massivly developed. If we have the likes of May Watson Nowell then take Joe as a project(not this Autumn obv) is not really as risk but i dont think McConnechie will ever be first choice for England and especially not going forward. If he gets some gametime for Bath then the 6N 2021 id like to see him given a shot. Thorley does deserve a shot though he is a class player.

Erm - what?
If the argument is that Ruaridh switched to XVs a year later than ideal, that he's 28 now and will be 31 for the next RWC; and should be discarded based on age, then... there's a discussion to be had.
If the argument is "I just don't like him / think his ceiling is all that high" - then there's a discussion to be had (though I'd like more details).
If the argument is "it's a position of strength for us, like backrow; and some very god players are going to miss out" - then there's a discussion to be had.
If the argument is that by playing 6 matches out of 7 he doesn't have enough game time; so we should pick someone who's played 5 games out of 7 instead, then... that seems a triffle odd.
Thorley and MConnochie are comfortably the form wingers of the restart, and of the season as a whole (though less comfortably there LRZ); Ruaridh has scored tries in every match of this mini-season*; and went to the RWC in Japan.
If we're not ruling out Ruaridh and Jonny on the principal of age; then Ruaridh, Ollie, Jonny, Ant, Jack and Elliott should all be in the conversation.
At this moment in time, Ant is injured and looking off-form, Elliott and Jonny are out of form. Has Jack done much apart from the wonder try (and what a try!) since the restart? I've not watched much of Exeter these 2 months



* ETA: Sorry, except for the first, stuttering match

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah if we're going on form then McConnochie is the first back 3 player on the team sheet atm,
Even more so if Watson moves to 15

 

[BPM]

Nowell has barely played. I think they were essentially saving him for the big games.

 

[Scotty]

Erm - what?
If the argument is that Ruaridh switched to XVs a year later than ideal, that he's 28 now and will be 31 for the next RWC; and should be discarded based on age, then... there's a discussion to be had.
If the argument is "I just don't like him / think his ceiling is all that high" - then there's a discussion to be had (though I'd like more details).
If the argument is "it's a position of strength for us, like backrow; and some very god players are going to miss out" - then there's a discussion to be had.
If the argument is that by playing 6 matches out of 7 he doesn't have enough game time; so we should pick someone who's played 5 games out of 7 instead, then... that seems a triffle odd.
Thorley and MConnochie are comfortably the form wingers of the restart, and of the season as a whole (though less comfortably there LRZ); Ruaridh has scored tries in every match of this mini-season*; and went to the RWC in Japan.
If we're not ruling out Ruaridh and Jonny on the principal of age; then Ruaridh, Ollie, Jonny, Ant, Jack and Elliott should all be in the conversation.
At this moment in time, Ant is injured and looking off-form, Elliott and Jonny are out of form. Has Jack done much apart from the wonder try (and what a try!) since the restart? I've not watched much of Exeter these 2 months



* ETA: Sorry, except for the first, stuttering match

McConnechie i rate as a good player and on good form and not against him getting in but i dont think he will ever be England's first choice winger, not because of age but because of other options and i dont think he will ever get much better than he is now. He is a very good balanced runner who put in abit of space can make ground and finish tries. Positionally and defensively sound but i just dont get the feeling that on an international stage he can be a world beater but i think in the future Joe can with work to his game. Right now McConnechie is above him even when he is fit but id rather keep the trusted may nowell watson(who in my opinion are above McConnechie) and focus on someone with future potential. On all account McConnechie is agreat guy though like a really nice genuine person (just saying this and not making a point out of it)

Big Joe is a freak, as quick as the fastest bath players and big, he has a class offload too. Could potentially have a huge ceiling.

He is very raw and needs to work on his defensive game and other aspects to reach his potential(as May did) but if he is playing well for bath and stays fit i can see him quite easily over taking McConnechie in the race for the next RWC.

I dont like talking about credit in the bank because it shouldnt work like that but we also dont want a big overhaul. I havnt ruled out May on age but i agree thorley is on better form and looks a constant danger. Nowell does actually do quite alot and has a very good workrate. Honestly no idea on Watson but the lack of FB options he needs to be in the conversation.

For this autumn as wingers id take. May Nowell Watson and Thorley or McConnechie. Leaning towards Thirley because he is also on good form and believe has alot more to offer in the future.