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England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

I'm not saying we should select him again but Hughes seems like he's gotten a real second wind since he's been at Bristol. I think it's definitely worth keeping an eye on him.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
I'm not saying we should select him again but Hughes seems like he's gotten a real second wind since he's been at Bristol. I think it's definitely worth keeping an eye on him.
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gotta agree- if he carries on playing like hes started the season, he'll have to be strongly considered again especially as BV seems to have lost his mojo.
 
How old is hughes? And if he comes back, big IF, we have to use him right rather than a 1 out runner into heaving traffic and then say he's crap. Cant use him how we use billy.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Is everyone on here a goldfish or something??

Even when he was in top form at Wasps he was ******* woeful for England.
We should be ecstatic he's finally dropped off the radar not looking for ways to shoehorn him back into the EPS
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He was never in top form for Wasps while he was playing for England.
 
Yes he was, that's why he was picked for England in the first place - dunno if playing so terribly for England knocked his confidence and affected his club game or something, but to suggest a move to Bristol has somehow turned him into something he never was is disingenuous.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Yes he was, that's why he was picked for England in the first place - dunno if playing so terribly for England knocked his confidence and affected his club game or something, but to suggest a move to Bristol has somehow turned him into something he never was is disingenuous.
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No he wasn't - he had a great 2015/16 which is why EJ shoved him straight into an England shirt as soon as he became available, but his 16/17 form was nowhere near that of the previous season.

Now as I said in my first post, I don't think that we should select him again straight away so I don't know where your comment about shoe-horning him in came from. All I said was that we should keep an eye on him, as I believe that if his form continues to improve, he could be a real asset to us. I'm really not sure how that prompted the responses of "Jesus wept" or calling me a goldfish but hey ho.
 
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That he's a proven failure at international level and any talk of him being in the mix again is very misguided.
 
What are you people smoking, Hughes and now Goode!!!

What about a FB with pace? Or an 8 who actually knows how to ruck?
 
TRF_Olyy said:
That he's a proven failure at international level and any talk of him being in the mix again is very misguided.
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They're two completely different situations IMO. Goode didn't have the athleticism to be an international 15 and no amount of time in the gym or on a track was ever going to change that; he simply wasn't built for it. Hughes' short comings came in the fact that he was punching well below his weight, which I think came from a combination of a lack of confidence and probably slacking off in the gym, as well as an inability at the breakdown which came from a lack of understanding and probably some laziness. All of these things can be amended by a new coach and a new environment, which he's found at Bristol.
 
Simple fact for me is that we have enough players to build for France in 2023. I think we have a strong enough core that anyone who isn't going to be there in 4 years time can be dropped personally. Might be harsh, but a few areas where we lacked depth and we shouldn't. Simple fact was EJ stuck with some old guard too long and then didn't give some younger fringe players any chance (scrum half, for example). With less than 50 international games until the next world cup we should be focusing on players who realistically will be there. Hughes simply isn't one of them regardless of if he shows some semblance of form.
 
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Reiser99 said:
Simple fact for me is that we have enough players to build for France in 2023. I think we have a strong enough core that anyone who isn't going to be there in 4 years time can be dropped personally. Might be harsh, but a few areas where we lacked depth and we shouldn't. Simple fact was EJ stuck with some old guard too long and then didn't give some younger fringe players any chance (scrum half, for example). With less than 50 international games until the next world cup we should be focusing on players who realistically will be there. Hughes simply isn't one of them regardless of if he shows some semblance of form.
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Of course the RWC should always be a consideration and we need to plan for France, but the reality is whether you should over fixate on a maximum of 3 knockout matches years in the future at the expense of everything else.

Hughes is 28. He hadn't set the world on fire but I did think he was slowly getting to grips with the international game. If he's fit, has worked on his weaknesses and playing well, he should be considered. Its the right message to reward form and improvement. And let's face it Binny should no longer be guaranteed the shirt. Neither may be the medium or long term answer, Hughes would have a lot of work to do, but he shouldn't automatically be disregarded.
 
Reiser99 said:
Simple fact for me is that we have enough players to build for France in 2023. I think we have a strong enough core that anyone who isn't going to be there in 4 years time can be dropped personally. Might be harsh, but a few areas where we lacked depth and we shouldn't. Simple fact was EJ stuck with some old guard too long and then didn't give some younger fringe players any chance (scrum half, for example). With less than 50 international games until the next world cup we should be focusing on players who realistically will be there. Hughes simply isn't one of them regardless of if he shows some semblance of form.
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Do we? Vunipola and Hughes are the only 8s we've consistently played in the last 4 years who will still be around in 2023. Wilson will be 34 and the likes of Mercer and Simmonds have only had cameos. People are putting a lot of hope in Dombrandt (myself included) but what's to say that he'll take to international rugby any better than Hughes did? I really don't think we're in a position at the moment to be discounting 8 options.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
Do we? Vunipola and Hughes are the only 8s we've consistently played in the last 4 years who will still be around in 2023. Wilson will be 34 and the likes of Mercer and Simmonds have only had cameos. People are putting a lot of hope in Dombrandt (myself included) but what's to say that he'll take to international rugby any better than Hughes did? I really don't think we're in a position at the moment to be discounting 8 options.
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And if we're carrying on with Curryhill type flankers the 8 answer won't be Mercer or Simmonds.

The more players we have in contention can only drive up standards. Bet we'd have seen more from Binny in Japan if there'd been some serious competition snapping at his heels. As it was he was absolutely guaranteed to start despite being below par.
 
Who are the alternatives then? It's all well and good saying who you think isn't good enough but who would you have instead? Dombrandt's a very good prospect and I'd have him over Hughes in a heartbeat, but say he flops at international level while Hughes' form continues to improve, you wouldn't even consider bringing him back in? That's all I'm actually suggesting.
 

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