England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would love Paul Hill to replace Cole.
I just want tigers to have that TH situation of Castro and Cole back in the day of 50/30 splits and heavy rotation.



question for English fans
Who could Eddie has realistically have picked from in the forwards in the prem that would've helped us against that SA pack in that form?
Just thinking about it now and for me, no one really.

Which kind of sums up some of our problems.

Some players coming in have that size though
Heyes
Isiekwe
Kpoku
Hill
Dombrandt

I know at Tigers we have like 4 U18 players who are units
George Martin at Tigers is a 6ft 6 18 stone lock
Whitcombe is like a 6ft 3 19 stone prop

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would love Paul Hill to replace Cole.
I just want tigers to have that TH situation of Castro and Cole back in the day of 50/30 splits and heavy rotation.



question for English fans
Who could Eddie has realistically have picked from in the forwards in the prem that would've helped us against that SA pack in that form?
Just thinking about it now and for me, no one really.

Which kind of sums up some of our problems.

Some players coming in have that size though
Heyes
Isiekwe
Kpoku
Hill
Dombrandt

I know at Tigers we have like 4 U18 players who are units
George Martin at Tigers is a 6ft 6 18 stone lock
Whitcombe is like a 6ft 3 19 stone prop

You can't blame Jones for sticking with the players who were so good in the semi, except this was going to be a very different type of challenge. He said pre tournament that there was no first XV and that he'd be going horses for courses, but he didn't. Of the players out there 20:20 hindsight could have selected.....

Marler to start, unquestionably the better scrummager. You could also have started Cole to try to draw some sting as the better scrummager.

For a slugfest as this was likely to be you could also have made a case that Launch and Kruis were actually both better equipped than our starting pair.

You could have broken up Curryhill and put the bigger Wilson in without losing much. I think he's really underrated.

Of players not out there.....

Williams is a big unit at TH. Might have helped.

As you said on another thread Binny has been shown up as one dimensional. I think Jones totally missed a trick by dumping Morgan who's a better all round player in my book.

But would it have made a difference? Probably not, but we do need to start involving Isiekwe and Uni Rig asap.

 

[Abraxaz]

England are never going to win anything, they cannot handle any pressure. Which is odd as the domestic teams do pretty well.

For the number of registered players and amount of money they are chronic under achievers.

 

[Saint Matt]

England are never going to win anything, they cannot handle any pressure. Which is odd as the domestic teams do pretty well.

For the number of registered players and amount of money they are chronic under achievers.

It feels like that applies to all our teams in most major sports. I don't know why.

I guess in terms of today, we almost took the set piece for granted. I never, ever imagined we'd get sorted out like that.

 

[WarriorKelv]

Would love Paul Hill to replace Cole.
I just want tigers to have that TH situation of Castro and Cole back in the day of 50/30 splits and heavy rotation.



question for English fans
Who could Eddie has realistically have picked from in the forwards in the prem that would've helped us against that SA pack in that form?
Just thinking about it now and for me, no one really.

Which kind of sums up some of our problems.

Some players coming in have that size though
Heyes
Isiekwe
Kpoku
Hill
Dombrandt

I know at Tigers we have like 4 U18 players who are units
George Martin at Tigers is a 6ft 6 18 stone lock
Whitcombe is like a 6ft 3 19 stone prop

Possibly Marler, George, Williams, Itoje, J. Hill, M. Wilson, Morgan, Underhill. Mako, LCD, Sinkler, Kruis, T. Curry might have been a better pack to go with but still hard against that SA pack.

As you said we need to start bringing some youth through now with more physical approach. Genge, George (experience/ leadership), Heyes, Isiekwe, Itoje, Hill, T. Curry, Ackermann, Singleton, Seville (struggling for LH tbh), Sinkler, Kpoku, Dombrandt is an interesting pack. Props and SH are areas I think we will struggle as I can't see depth at all. FB/ Wings and 12/13 can have depth if players get the chance.

 

[Jashay]

Heyes is the best scrummager of the lot imo (Granted I might be biased) he's also the youngest.
Heyes also IMO is very good at defensive maul stuff.

On paper he seems like a really interesting option. He's a decent scrummager playing at a club that likes Forwards-based play, and he gets to be trained by Dan Cole and Steve Borthwick. If you're looking for an environment to foster a good Tighthead, that seems pretty top-drawer.

How's Genge's scrummaging these days? I'd love it if he kicked on.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't think the player selection was too bad for the SA game compared to what we had had previously, it was the mindset of the players that was completely wrong. Right from the off there was just no intensity at all. The fast line speed was completely gone, tackles were passive and players were trying to force the game very early on. The previous tactics that had worked so well were chucked out and the players (youngs in particular) resorted to what they felt comfortable with. 1 off runners off 9 with no support just running at brick walls. No decoys, no deception.

England do not lack the physicality or the skills to win, what's missing is the winning mindset and the ability to keep going when things aren't going your way. The ability to wrest control of a game that is slipping away has never been demonstrated by this England squad under Jones. The work for the future is getting the mentality of the players sorted first and foremost.

Big question, who is going to replace Jones in the future?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Big question, who is going to replace Jones in the future?

That's the worry - who the hell is there?
Didn't the RFU say a foreign coach was gonna be a one time thing and part of it was to bring through an English guy behind him?
So....Borthwick? Yikes. And isn't he headed back to the club game?
I would've thought maybe Gustard, but he's gone back to the club game too.
Even Jim Mallinder has left the RFU.

Genuinely who is there?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jones saying the team will be broken up, which is quite interesting given that there are very few who can't continue for at least the next couple of years.

Obvs you never take anything Jones says at face value. Knee jerk, possibly. Planned, possibly. But I suspect he's seen something in certain players that's made him think.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/03/eddie-jones-england-six-nations-rugby-world-cup-final

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is this not the case after every world cup?
There can be a certain number of EPS changes made each time the squad is named but only wholesale changes made after a world cup?

I'd be surprised if there's too many changes - especially when you consider a number of the "deadwood" players are guys EJ likes/play a lot (like he's not gonna bin off Youngs/Cole cause they're both in his first choice 23).

 

[Scotty]

Is this not the case after every world cup?
There can be a certain number of EPS changes made each time the squad is named but only wholesale changes made after a world cup?

I'd be surprised if there's too many changes - especially when you consider a number of the "deadwood" players are guys EJ likes/play a lot (like he's not gonna bin off Youngs/Cole cause they're both in his first choice 23).

Id be happy youngs and cole to be just gone. Singleton i dont rate that highly, hes decent but never be first choice. With whos coming through the back row could be a battle though on form we have to keep curry underhill billy but give chances for others to come good(hill willis ludlam, Dombrandt. While on form Kvesic is abit old.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Is this not the case after every world cup?
There can be a certain number of EPS changes made each time the squad is named but only wholesale changes made after a world cup?

I'd be surprised if there's too many changes - especially when you consider a number of the "deadwood" players are guys EJ likes/play a lot (like he's not gonna bin off Youngs/Cole cause they're both in his first choice 23).

Yes, although there's very little natural wastage through likely retirements. Sounds like he's planning to take it out of the hands of some.

S'pose it partly depends on Jones' intentions. If he's planning to go through to France he may well be keen to take a proper look at what some of the youngsters can do. If he's only planning on seeing out the last 2 years of his contract then he may think shorter term. I hope he either commits to France or goes now, changing horses mid stream is never ideal.

 

[Jashay]

I guess it depends what Eddie means by 'the team'. I can't see a huge number of changes to the 31-man squad, but a lot of the 45-man EPS could go.

Youngs, Wilson, Lawes, Cole, Shields, T'eo, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, Brown, Hughes, Care... Marler might re-retire... That's 14 players already.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I guess it depends what Eddie means by 'the team'. I can't see a huge number of changes to the 31-man squad, but a lot of the 45-man EPS could go.

Youngs, Wilson, Lawes, Cole, Shields, T'eo, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, Brown, Hughes, Care... Marler might re-retire... That's 14 players already.

Yes true. I was talking about players around the recent match day squads, but the wider EPS should look very different.

Oh and find a way to bring back the bloody Saxons. Don't care whether it's B internationals or vs tier 2 teams, but it's an important stepping stone. This cannot be beyond the wit of man.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yes true. I was talking about players around the recent match day squads, but the wider EPS should look very different.

Oh and find a way to bring back the bloody Saxons. Don't care whether it's B internationals or vs tier 2 teams, but it's an important stepping stone. This cannot be beyond the wit of man.

We really need to bring back the Saxons; at the moment it's still our second lock-in team so we'd better start actually using it, otherwise we'll continue to lose various promising U20s players.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Borthwick and Gustard are prob the favourites to take over once they have had some Head coach experience.

 

[Saint Matt]

Id be happy youngs and cole to be just gone. Singleton i dont rate that highly, hes decent but never be first choice. With whos coming through the back row could be a battle though on form we have to keep curry underhill billy but give chances for others to come good(hill willis ludlam, Dombrandt. While on form Kvesic is abit old.

He's only 27 tbf.

I think we need to be careful that we aren't just picking players because they're young. IMO some of the names I've seen being suggested would weaken the squad an awful lot if they were first choice.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Id be happy youngs and cole to be just gone. Singleton i dont rate that highly, hes decent but never be first choice. With whos coming through the back row could be a battle though on form we have to keep curry underhill billy but give chances for others to come good(hill willis ludlam, Dombrandt. While on form Kvesic is abit old.

Singleton's only 23 to be fair to him. I agree he hasn't been setting the world alight but I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do at Sarries as George's understudy. There are far worse mentors to have.

I'm surprised to see how many people are going with Barbeary. He has stacks of potential but I think 2023 is much too soon for him, he's only 18 still. He has all of the physical attributes but his set piece is still very wavy. I'd like to throw Jack Walker's name into the hat as well; he's always looked impressive in the age groups and in the chances he's gotten at Bath.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think LCD was starting to look much more at home in the shirt. He'll only just be 30 in France and I think he's got a lot to offer.

George may still be around then too.....for all his excellent work I just wish he had a bit more of the Hartleys about him.

 

[Scotty]

So what are we saying? Players 26 or less are available with the odd older if they havnt dipped.

So what players in our squad are 26 and under?
I can think of
LCD
Singleton
Genge
Itoje
Curry
Underhill
Ludlam
Ford
Slade
Nowell
Big joe

Not a bad place to build from.
Oddly we need a decent 2,9,12,15...is it just me or is anyone else seen this issue before for England?

Also LCD itoje curry underhill ludlan ford had good tournaments tbh and 4 years experience and they should be the spine of the team, not the greatest finaly but not sure anyone played amazing in that. and the others bearly got a look in