England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[Scotty]

Eddie is a strange one. He fluctuates between bizarre loyalty to some out of form players (Te'o/Youngs) and strange call-ups for others.

Teo should be no where near the England team. Age hes on the old side...form your have to play to get that...talant he is decent off the bench when on form i guess but not an impact player...injury prone.

Shields and teo should be laughing if they get picked.

I do like Eddie giving a 19 year old time in an england camp with no chance of playing them as he gets to see how far along they are.

Youngs...slow delivery and not the sniping runs he ysed to do. Spencer is in form as was robson before he was injured and they boast what 10 caps between them mainly off the bench. Youngs and care(who seems out of favour) are only experience we have. I dont get it.

 

[BPM]

Exactly. I'm comfortable with us not picking Care. My issue is the timing of it. Why stick with him until the last minute without really blooding the alternatives?

It's fair to say Spencer was second choice at Sarries until last season and Robson also fluffed a couple of auditions in front of Eddie, but when it was painfully obvious we needed a third scrum half, we needed to give both of them more chances.

 

[Scotty]

A 3rd choice scrum half should have been in every camp even if they knew they wernt going to be picked just to get them integrated. Imagine youngs goes down and hes not taken care...robson and spencer in one of the most vital positions in a world cup. Alot of pressure and expectation. And maybe abit of trying to hard because they want to keep there place rather than a controled head. Youngs and csre will be very calm but arguably are not the most talented. Spencer has to ve first choice if youngs goes down as he has that familiarity at club level with faz.

 

[BPM]

Agreed. Spencer is the obvious choice. He's now a very well rounded scrum half who can control a game and reliably pass and kick accurately as well as being quick/elusive enough to snipe if it's on.

Even if Robson had not had his DVT issue, he'd still be much better suited to the impact sub role at test level (basically a direct replacement for Care).

 

[Scotty]

Agreed. Spencer is the obvious choice. He's now a very well rounded scrum half who can control a game and reliably pass and kick accurately as well as being quick/elusive enough to snipe if it's on.

Even if Robson had not had his DVT issue, he'd still be much better suited to the impact sub role at test level (basically a direct replacement for Care).

How would we do this would cup if that happened, no youngs or care. I genuinly so think spencer and robson could step up and its deffiantly a possibility. Part pf me hopes ot does forces our hand as they are our most in form set of players but then on the flip sode i worry about their lack of experience.

Youngs still being clear first choice without question annoys me, constant slow delivery. Good player dont get me wrong but we havnt even looked for a replacement even though he hasnt been great for a while, and care didnt do grest as first choice.

 

[BPM]

I think Spencer would do well. He's done well enough in major finals, so I think he's done as much as he can to prove he's ready. As you said previously, he's used to playing with Billy at 8 and Farrell at 10, so it's as if that's an untested combination.

Barring injury, Youngs will be there, but as he is only just coming back to fitness from his shoulder op, I'd like to see Spencer start in the warm ups with Youngs eased back in from the bench.

 

[Scotty]

I think Spencer would do well. He's done well enough in major finals, so I think he's done as much as he can to prove he's ready. As you said previously, he's used to playing with Billy at 8 and Farrell at 10, so it's as if that's an untested combination.

Barring injury, Youngs will be there, but as he is only just coming back to fitness from his shoulder op, I'd like to see Spencer start in the warm ups with Youngs eased back in from the bench.

And Mako at 1 and George at 2 and Itoje at 4 and Kruis at 5.

Yes i agree too but does youngs have any impact off the bench? Guess spencer faz starting and youngs ford on the bench makes sense on a familiarity point of view i guess.

 

[BPM]

Obviously there are more Saracens players in the side, but a scrum half has the most direct interaction with the number 8 and fly half, hence why I made reference to Billy and Farrell.

 

[Scotty]

Obviously there are more Saracens players in the side, but a scrum half has the most direct interaction with the number 8 and fly half, hence why I made reference to Billy and Farrell.

Haha sorry i had to but your obv right.

 

[Scotty]

What is Dombrandt for England, could he be Wilsons replacment?(not that wilson needs replacing but he is getting older) As in a 6 that can play 8? Or will he be seen as an 8?

I like the balance of Dombrandt TCurry Billy Underhill.

All this post world cup ofcourse


Dombrandt comes accross as having a very good rugby brain and is not slow for his size, my concern for him was fitness but that will be addressed by EJ and Quins i have no doubt and he will be a very good player but if he is seen as an 8 will he be able to push ahead of Billy at 8?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I feel that an international 8 should be able to do a decent-to-good job at 6, and an international 6 should be able to a job at 8.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Short term: Shields/Hughes replacement - backrow who can cover lock if there's mid-game injuries.
Long term: As you say, probably looked at as a starting blindside however Wilson is only 29 and doesn't have the international mileage on his body - him vs Dombrandt is gonna be a battle.

Genuine competition in every position only makes a side better, though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What is Dombrandt for England, could he be Wilsons replacment?(not that wilson needs replacing but he is getting older) As in a 6 that can play 8? Or will he be seen as an 8?

I like the balance of Dombrandt TCurry Billy Underhill.

All this post world cup ofcourse


Dombrandt comes accross as having a very good rugby brain and is not slow for his size, my concern for him was fitness but that will be addressed by EJ and Quins i have no doubt and he will be a very good player but if he is seen as an 8 will he be able to push ahead of Billy at 8?

That's exactly what you want from an 8 and something we've been missing. He may start at 6, but long term he looks like an 8 to me.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't see the need to really make a definitive decision as to which he should be. 6 and 8 are similar enough positions that he'll be able to excel in both going forwards without it being to his detriment. The position he starts in will depend on the other players we have starting and where we need him to fill in.

Personally I really like him at 6, I've always preferred the idea of having your proper bruiser at 6 where they can focus on being as physical and dominant as possible without having to worry about the tactical decisions that come with playing 8. If him and Wilson were to start together then I'd put Dombrandt at 6 and Wilson at 8.

 

[BPM]

I think Dombrandt is going to be a special player, but right now he lacks the work rate to be an international 6 or 8 IMO.

Robshaw, Clifford and Chisholm have put in a lot of donkey work at the ruck this season to allow him to focus on carrying. I don't think he'd have that luxury at test level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I know it's only the barbarians but he did vs barbarians

It's not even necessarily his carrying that's standout though, his ferocity in the tackle and the ruck is not to be discounted.

I'm not advocating for him to be in the RWC XV or anything but it definitely feels like a "when" rather than an "if" that he's in that side

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tony Rowe in the Rugby paper saying that Baxter won't leave Exeter for the England job when Eddie Jones fails, who he doesn't like becuase of comments Jones has made about the way Exeter play.

Quite funny how people still think Baxter, when he hasn't shown any signs of developing a team past Premiership level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think Baxter would work in the England set up - maybe in a national contract type set up like Ireland/Wales where he can dictate to players more, but he wouldn't have the same influence that he does at club level when he's only got the side for a week here and there throughout the year

 

[BPM]

Agreed. Baxter is rightly lauded for the work he has done with Exeter, but I would argue that their progress has stalled a bit. They've been a little unlucky with the groups they've drawn in Europe, but they've not yet looked like kicking on to the next level.

Their game plan has not really developed and the plan b last season was to give it to Cordero or Nowell and hope they could make something from nothing. I suspect it could be similar next season with Hogg instead of Cordero relied upon to perform a bit of magic.

Baxter seems like a thoroughly good bloke and if/when Exeter show that they can adapt their game, I'd be happy to get behind him, but not right now. Mark McCall is far more impressive IMO. I know he's said he doesn't want to work at test level but there's nothing left for him to win (or prove) in the domestic or European game, so surely there must be some way of attracting him.

 

[Scotty]

I definatly think Baxter has some qualities that put him up there to be the next England coach but he's not ready yet, he seems to be a good man manager and would be decent as an assistant coach level or forward coach atm maybe but not the top job. But personally feel he needs to develop his coaching first and bring on chiefs attack on the way saints have this season, to show that he can adapt his game plan.

Great Coach and not ready yet