England Post-WC discussion

[Aristodemus]

Nowell covers all those positions though, and imo is a far better player. If he isn't starting it is him who I would like in the 23 shirt. That boot is awesome, but how much is it really worth?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not suggesting it, but Nowell could make a decent 12.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Having bumped into - by which I mean lurked, stalked and timed the accidental 'bump' perfectly - Daly a couple of times at a Clapham nightclub of moderate repute

Infernos?

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...mmicks-there-is-a-message-to-all-he-does.html

Good article on Gustard.

If his system allows us to not be so concerned about individual back's "smashiness" in defence (which a good system should do), then I think we'll all be happy.

 

[TobesHodges]

The thing i like about Eddie Jones is that he won't worry about upsetting the apple cart when it comes to selection. He's going to come in with very fresh eyes, and i don't see him as a coach that will necessarily be swayed by caps, i.e Chudly for Exeter is a great example of it, i think he'll look at players like him and say "well why isn't this lad being given a chance in an England jersey?". I also think we'll see a real overhaul in the Saxons as a real development squad and try and utilize it better that way. Already i think we've seen a change in attitude of the English players 'Upping there game's", the reason for this is up for debate, but i'm looking forward to seeing what kind of impression he'll make on the way England play on the pitch more than off it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...as-last-piece-of-England-coaching-jigsaw.html

First (big) indication that it's going to be King - it's funny, if you had asked me last year, then I would have no trepidation about it... after the start of this season however....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I've been wanting King involved with England for a while, but I'm a little damper on it now. I did like the idea of that chiefs chap.
He should do very well, though. He's a very talented coach, and has done some very good things in the past. Hopefully Saint's recent attacking form is more because Dickson and Myler are getting worse attackers as they age.


Don't like the sound of it "finishing up the coaching staff" though. I don't have a massive amount of faith in Borthwick solely in charge of the forwards, as I've mentioned before.
I suppose Eddie knows his capabilities more than anyone else, though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I always felt that 3 coaches seemed to few, would prefer 4 or 5 with 3 being generalists and others as specialists. Attack, Defence, Skills and then some of: scrum, lineout, kicking, breakdown.

I just hope Jones is stronger than Lancaster and doesn't allow his assistants to let their club bias get the better of them. Don't want the equivalent of the Sarries backs who stuck to the team for way longer than they should, Goode, Ashton and Barritt.

 

[j'nuh]

Don't like the sound of it "finishing up the coaching staff" though. I don't have a massive amount of faith in Borthwick solely in charge of the forwards, as I've mentioned before.

Yeah, I'm worried about that too. Especially in the scrum? Japan had a specialist scrum coach. I'm not sure Borthwick has even taught scrummaging? I'm guessing a specialist will still be brought in, but not sure.

More generally, he doesn't have a lot of experience and he doesn't have a variety of experience. Hopefully captaincy of England and Saracens will have helped him along in part, but significantly more experienced coaches have failed in the same role as him. Willing to give him the BOD for now though.

 

[Peat]

I'll third the general worries about Borthwick being in sole charge of an international pack, particularly as it wasn't so long ago we heard that Borthwick didn't want to coach players he'd played with or against, which seemed pretty sensible, except now he'll be doing that.

Still, Eddie should know, gotta trust the coach, important he's on the same wave length as everyone and all that...

I still slightly worry that we're going to end up with Sarries uber-defensive 2011 throwback though...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jones has known Borthwick for a while, but if it hadn't been for THAT match against RSA we'd all be up in arms at the mere prospect.

I'm surprised by the direction this all seems to be heading, but we'll see.

 

[HowieLO6]

Infernos?

How dare you. Infernos was where Barkley used to do push-up competitions and scoop up a handful of not-so-bright Claphamites by about 10.

I've gone up in the world now, and its The Grand these days. Early morning drinking with aussies makes it easier on the professional rugby contingent. Fish in a barrel.

- - - Updated - - -

Nowell covers all those positions though, and imo is a far better player. If he isn't starting it is him who I would like in the 23 shirt. That boot is awesome, but how much is it really worth?

Far better strikes me as being a bit of a push. I'd take Daly at 13 and 15 over Nowell, but the latter on the wings. Id be interested to see who would take it in a footrace, but my money would be on Daly.

Not to say Nowell shouldn't be in the team anyway. Goes looking for work and is incredibly tenacious, but doesn't offer anything with the boot. Didnt Nowell play with Ford, Faz, Watson and Daly in the same U20s lineup?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Didnt Nowell play with Ford, Faz, Watson and Daly in the same U20s lineup?

Only Watson - where he was first choice 15 ahead of Tony.

I'd say that Nowell is far better than Daly.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Anyone got a link to the stats for the premiership opta? Can't find it online anywhere and really wanted to look at Sam hills stats and dailys defensive stats.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Telegraph have got rid of theirs (it was the only one I knew of) - so if you want it you're going to have to do it manually.

I might do a roundup of stats today, actually - I'm home ill.

 

[Peat]

I'd bet on Daly in a foot race, but Nowell's shown better decision making and a better all round game for my money. Daly has a higher ceiling, he could be a better player, but Nowell's better now and I'm not sure I'd bet on Daly ever completely overtaking him - most players probably don't reach their full potential for my money.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd bet on Daly in a foot race, but Nowell's shown better decision making and a better all round game for my money. Daly has a higher ceiling, he could be a better player, but Nowell's better now and I'm not sure I'd bet on Daly ever completely overtaking him - most players probably don't reach their full potential for my money.

Daly would probably win a footrace, but I'd like to challenge the notion that Nowell is positively slow, he's not slow in the way that Goode is or Mike Brown used to be.

Also not sure what you are basing Daly's supposedly higher potential on?

 

[Tony Manx]

Jones has known Borthwick for a while, but if it hadn't been for THAT match against RSA we'd all be up in arms at the mere prospect.

I'm surprised by the direction this all seems to be heading, but we'll see.

I am with you so far.........

 

[ratsapprentice]

It does need to be remembered that Maso was doing very good things with Japan's forwards prior to Borthers coming in, I'm not trying to undersell his involvement... equally, I don't think people should inflate his importance either.

Also - I am in the process of doing a prem stat roundup of possible EPS players.

 

[HowieLO6]

Daly would probably win a footrace, but I'd like to challenge the notion that Nowell is positively slow, he's not slow in the way that Goode is or Mike Brown used to be.

Also not sure what you are basing Daly's supposedly higher potential on?

Seeing as I'm in the minority here, I'll put my Daly position down to one tainted with some bias! Either that or I need to watch more of Nowell. And stop believing everything that I read.

Not to say I wouldn't mind both of them being on the same team. The likes of Nowell, Watson, Ford, Daly, JJ, etc, does make for quite a youthful pool of backs, albeit one that would probably be an underweight group.