England Post-WC discussion

[RedruthRFC]

It's quite funny the way that this thread holds a mirror up to the difficulty of selecting a committee for this purpose. We already have a Leicester fan championing the cause of a former Leicester player!

To answer a couple of points raised, the problem with selecting anyone with a media career is that their leanings will already be well known and in all likelihood they will already have expressed their opinion on the key issues, meaning that they may have been appointed for this reason. Ian McGeechan for example was part of the committee that appointed Lancaster and has already written a column saying that he believes he should stay - smacks of predetermination to me.

With regard to using non-rugby people in the process, it depends how the review will be carried out. If it is from the "we should have picked a genuine 7 / 12 / bench" perspective, then I agree that they have no use, if it is more from the perspective of "X was appointed to achieve Y, but has only achieved Z" perspective then I can see the value, particularly in terms of objectivity. As they have gone for a mix of rugby people and those with a business background, I guess that the review will be a combination of the two approaches.

 

[Patchey]

I reckon so too, unfortunately.
I feel like the only change will be Catt walking way from the whole thing and landing a gig with a Premiership club.

Surely they can't keep Faz Snr. though? I mean unless Lancaster is so attached he says he'll leave of Farrell is made to (or whatever blackmail / hold Farrell has on Lancaster remains strong) he can't possibly stay?

- - - Updated - - -

I reckon so too, unfortunately.
I feel like the only change will be Catt walking way from the whole thing and landing a gig with a Premiership club.

Surely they can't keep Faz Snr. though? I mean unless Lancaster is so attached he says he'll leave of Farrell is made to (or whatever blackmail / hold Farrell has on Lancaster remains strong) he can't possibly stay?

 

[Mattybuck]

Basically it's a right pig' breakfast.

Win percentages are fine, but you have to look at what he has won... Nothing!

SCW with a similar percentage, won a grand slam and a RWC!

Lancaster has not achieved either.

His selection is shocking and come the big game against Wales, he bottled it and picked an inferior team to the one that beat Wales at the Millennium.

He has a catalogue of errors and misses opportunities. He should be judge by his results and trophy cabinet.

Whether the RFU will do that I don't know... There is an opportunity for change and plenty of good options out there, with four years of building.

SL is a decent bloke, I think we all agree that, but he is not a top international coach.

 

[Wimero]

Just thought I'd have a look at the odds on offer for the forthoming semis.Noticed that Dean Ryan is current joint fav with Eddie Jones to replace Burt.Last week Ryan wasn't even in the betting.Spoke to a mate of mine who works at Corals head office in London and he said they had took a lot of big bets in the last few days on Ryan being appointed.I'm now wondering if someone in the know at Twickenham has decided to fill their boots!
Betting aside does anyone reckon Ryan would be a good appointment.I'm really unsure.

 

[stus768]

Just thought I'd have a look at the odds on offer for the forthoming semis.Noticed that Dean Ryan is current joint fav with Eddie Jones to replace Burt.Last week Ryan wasn't even in the betting.Spoke to a mate of mine who works at Corals head office in London and he said they had took a lot of big bets in the last few days on Ryan being appointed.I'm now wondering if someone in the know at Twickenham has decided to fill their boots!
Betting aside does anyone reckon Ryan would be a good appointment.I'm really unsure.

If you saw the Sky sports programme with him discussing the World Cup he was very impressive, made a lot of sense and was knowledgable. His analysis has always been good.

He struggled to win trophies at Gloucester but that was a long time ago now and he did top the prem whilst he was there. Just struggled with finals.

 

[Mattybuck]

I've a lot of time for Dean Ryan, especially when he took on the Wuss role with them doomed.

As stated his knowledge is good. If we want to keep with an English coach I think he'd be a fair bet.

 

[j'nuh]

The main difference between Kvesic and Robshaw. Robshaw flops over in the breakdown if as much as a breeze pushes against his body. Kvesic can withstand a whole team of players trying to take him off the ball and still stay on his feet and win a penalty:

All joking aside, Kvesic has continued where he left off last season, with a MOTM in the first game of the season, to go with his ridiculous number last season. I know there's some extent of preaching to the choir here, but he needs to be looked at.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The main difference between Kvesic and Robshaw. Robshaw flops over in the breakdown if as much as a breeze pushes against his body. Kvesic can withstand a whole team of players trying to take him off the ball and still stay on his feet and win a penalty:

All joking aside, Kvesic has continued where he left off last season, with a MOTM in the first game of the season, to go with his ridiculous number last season. I know there's some extent of preaching to the choir here, but he needs to be looked at.

And kvesic is twice as fast as robshaw, something that is important in an open side.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We all know Brendon O'Connor is going to be England Openside come six nations end of.

 

[Mattybuck]

Good to see Will Fraser back as well...

Next England coach has no excuse, Kvesic needs a fair run in the 6N to show what he can do...

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

What do people think of Will Fraser and Kvesic's relative merits? As a poor soul with no BT sport and little Internet, I.e. No Aviva, how do they match up?

I'm pretty clueless, other than that both are considered genuine open sides. And of course, Fraser is made of biscuits.

 

[Mattybuck]

Fraser basically been out injured for last two seasons so game time very limited.

But from what I have seen he looks decent.

Kvesic has had to labour as part of an under powered Glaws pack, however I've never seen him have a bad game.

With him I just get the feeling that he has the ability to take it up a level if given the chance for England.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What do people think of Will Fraser and Kvesic's relative merits? As a poor soul with no BT sport and little Internet, I.e. No Aviva, how do they match up?

I'm pretty clueless, other than that both are considered genuine open sides. And of course, Fraser is made of biscuits.

http://www.premiershiprugby.tv/

No live stuff but you can watch every game and all legal.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kvesic is well better than Fraser.
I know Fraser has been plagued with injuries, but he's a class below.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Fraser is good, not the same class as Kev.

Clifford is the only other guy I've seen who looks like he might have the requisite tools to become a good international openside.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can't see that.
He's got the speed and link play, from 7s, but his work at the breakdown isn't as good. I mean it's good, but not the same as Kvesic et al.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

http://www.premiershiprugby.tv/

No live stuff but you can watch every game and all legal.

Thanks bud- the problem unfortunately lies in having a limited amount, restricting video etc. Pity me.

So of Kvesic, Clifford and Fraser, Kvesic is top dog, Clifford has most potential and Fraser is... A lesser quantity.

How do they compare in how they play? Kvesic is, naturally, master jackal from what I hear, but in terms of support running, speed, lineout ability and workrate? (Those last two left a bad taste tbh, but they're still valuable even if Lancaster and co.'s near fetishisation of them kinda makes them taboo, in my mind anyway)

I seem to remember Kvesic making monstrous numbers of tackles against Argentina and the Crusaders.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

England will prob have to pick from
Kvesic, O'Connor, Fraser, Clifford.

All under 25.

IMO a pretty damn good Openside crop to start with.

 

[j'nuh]

Part of Kvesic's appeal is his defensive positioning. He reads the opposition's attack so well that he's regularly in the right spot to make the tackle and jackal. He'll regularly swap positions with another player in the defensive line so that he mirrors where he thinks the ball will break down at, which is why he is so regularly involved in the breakdown and why his tackle count is so high.

His speed is decent but nothing particularly noteworthy. He definitely plays like a forward in attack, more Warburton than Tipuric. He has a decent carry and a particularly strong leg drive, but he's not really big enough to be beating several defenders a game and getting past the gainline from a standstill. As in defence, his main asset is still breakdown, although he's probably a little less active here than in defence.

Lineout work... he doesn't go up much in the lineout (I did see him go up against the Falcons last Friday, which I think was the first time I've ever see him jump in the lineout). But for Glos, he's the guy with the ball at the back of the maul, coordinating the movement. Typically the hooker will even join the maul and move past Kvesic, leaving Kvesic to continue to coordinate.

Work rate... high, especially defensively. You don't get the number of MOTMs he has had over the last year without a high work rate.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England will prob have to pick from
Kvesic, O'Connor, Fraser, Clifford.

All under 25.

IMO a pretty damn good Openside crop to start with.

All under 25, eh? By the time he reaches that age the chosen one should have 40+ caps under his belt.

NZ have a pretty good open side, yet his 23 y.o understudy already has 29 caps to his name. Kvesic, who is also 23 and generally regarded as easily our best proper 7 has 2 from a summer tour. Discuss!