England EPS 2016/17 season.

[ratsapprentice]

Wot I think:

Marler - Had a good game IMO, made 11 tackles, many of which were very hard.
Hartley - If the team isn't playing amazingly, his standard of play is not acceptable. The haste with which he was replaced may suggest Eddie feels this way too.
Cole - Much the same as last week, he's barely noticeable around the park.
Launchbury - Outstanding. Kruis has his work cut out when he's fit.
Lawes - More effective than last week.
Clifford - Frustratingly anonymous. An improvement on Wood though - no penalties given away. ro
Hughes - He made ****loads of carries, the majority of which were innefectual. No real alternative at the moment though. Fearns might be worth a look as Billy's backup in the future.
Youngs - Poor; worse than last week.
Ford - Again didn't bring his kicking game to bear.
Daly - Did well, finished the try very well.
Farrell - Did very well again.
Joseph - Didn't get much opportunity, bungled a long pass.
Nowell - Industrious as always, effective given the circumstances. Prevented a try.
Brown - Didn't really notice him a whole lot, not doing much to fend off the challengers.

George - Did well. Much bigger impact than Dylan.
Mullan - Not really a big threat to anyone else in the EPS.
Sinckler - Did very well, one offload went to ground, but not an objectively bad decision. Could have been brought on earlier.
Wood - Didn't really notice him.
Haskell - Big impact again.
Care - The pace went up when he came on, hard to tell how much he had to do with that.
Te'o - Much the same as last week. Good.
May - Didn't do a great deal.

As we did last week; we really miss the Vunipolae. We need players to make up for their loss in carrying - Clifford only carried twice, so I'd like to see him continue with the directive to do something.

My team for next week:

1. Marler/Vunipola
2. George
3. Cole/Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Haskell
7. Clifford
8. Hughes
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly/Watson
12. Farrell
13. JJ
14. Nowell
15. Daly/Watson

16. Hartley
17. Vunipola/Genge
18. Cole/Sinckler
19. Lawes
20. Harrison
21. Robson
22. Te'o
23. Daly/Watson

 

[j'nuh]

I know you're going to hate me for this...

11. Daly/Watson
15. Daly/Watson
23. Daly/Watson

Who is this Daly/Watson and can we play him in every backline position?

I have been seriously unimpressed with Harrison, Clifford and Hughes. Harrison and Clifford have played a few times before and have made no discernible impact to the point that I can't remember anything particularly decent they have done. I have a bit of time for Clifford so would be willing to see him come good, he seems skillful. Whereas Hughes has been less than average over his England career. Obviously considering Wood is a non-starter. I think we may as well give Mike Williams a go. Nothing to lose.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That feller May can fill in on the bench.

 

[Peat]

Not sure a team that's winning tight difficult games has nothing to lose. Hughes hasn't impressed but I'm not sure who we've got that would do better with the same assignment and he has stuck at it all game long. There's been some decent bits and bobs to his game. Clifford's game was spent entirely in the ruck, he wasn't amazing there but he did a decent job.

Before the game I said (elsewhere) that I didn't like our back row that much but I couldn't see how you improved it with the players available. I'll stand by that. At least right now we're giving the games to players with serious international potential. Williams, Fearns, whoever... they all need to go out there and make serious positive cases. Its currently not happening. Maybe in the future it does but not right now. This is it, lets hope for the best.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Not sure a team that's winning tight difficult games has nothing to lose. Hughes hasn't impressed but I'm not sure who we've got that would do better with the same assignment and he has stuck at it all game long. There's been some decent bits and bobs to his game. Clifford's game was spent entirely in the ruck, he wasn't amazing there but he did a decent job.

Before the game I said (elsewhere) that I didn't like our back row that much but I couldn't see how you improved it with the players available. I'll stand by that. At least right now we're giving the games to players with serious international potential. Williams, Fearns, whoever... they all need to go out there and make serious positive cases. Its currently not happening. Maybe in the future it does but not right now. This is it, lets hope for the best.

That's exactly how I feel. Don't like the back rows make up but there isn't really the choice of players in the eps .

We really need some more physical flankers to come through in the next couple of years.

 

[Which Tyler]

That's exactly how I feel. Don't like the back rows make up but there isn't really the choice of players in the eps .

We really need some more physical flankers to come through in the next couple of years.

Agreed - and not just within the EPS either. If we were looking outside the EPS trying to find a solution, we've got the likes of Ewers and Garvey who are injured; Wilson who plays for Newcastle, or Waldrom and Morgan who... well, who are unlikely to be any sort of improvement.
Morgan's probably got the best shot of actually improving things, purely based on his international reputation being so much greater than his club; and not being a rooky at this level.
Given how ineffective Hughes has been (I think we all expected better; and I'm talking about his effectiveness, not his nationality), I'd seriously consider making that swap for the last 2 matches if it doesn't click for Hughes against Italy.
I agree with Williams / Wilson ahead of Harrison / Wood though - Wood seems even less effective than he did when paired with Robshaw, and Harrison looks like yet another really good club-level player who can't make the step up (as does Hughes).

I'd still give them the Italy match to make amends, but if not, then I'd ditch them now.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Before the game I said (elsewhere) that I didn't like our back row that much but I couldn't see how you improved it with the players available. I'll stand by that. At least right now we're giving the games to players with serious international potential. Williams, Fearns, whoever... they all need to go out there and make serious positive cases. Its currently not happening. Maybe in the future it does but not right now. This is it, lets hope for the best.

I can't confirm, because I don't watch t14, but by all accounts Fearns has been tearing it up in France.

Which wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

This is quite interesting. Both Watson and Mako possibly available for Italy. George expected to start and Billy on track for Ireland. Could be a load of hot air of course, but I'd welcome all those back to the 23 in a heartbeat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...pola-set-give-england-six-nations-grand-slam/

 

[ratsapprentice]

Forwards (14)Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins) , Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).
Backs (11)
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Genge confirmed in the 23 (no Mullan).

Paul Hill and Tony come in.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Genge confirmed in the 23 (no Mullan).

Paul Hill and Tony come in.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Genge is confirmed. There's 2 weeks until the game, Mullan could be brought back in next week while Genge is getting a week of experience. Good to see that Cole may be getting a rest, and Sinckler a start.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Hadn't realised we were at the two week break. :mellow:

 

[Which Tyler]

Pretty sure Makos ahead of Mullan, assuming he comes through the Sarries match unscathed

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Watching his 6N's I really hope England use this tour to test out depht esp in the back row, shame no Saxons tour really.

Maybe looking at a squad of
1) Genge, Mullan
2) Taylor, Cowan-Dickie
3) Sink, Hill
4) Attwood,
5) Lawes/Kruis, Ewels
6) Williams, Ewers
7) Underhill, Robshaw
8) Morgan/Beaumont, Chisholm
9) Robson, Spencer
10) Ford, Loz
11) Roko, Yarde
12) Slade, James
13) T'eo, Thompkins
14) May, Solomona (why not ),
15) Woodward, Morris

Assuming that Marler, Vunipola, George, Cole, Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis/Lawes, Haskell, Vunipola, Youngs, Farrell, Joesph, Daly, Watson, Nowell with Lions chances.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I wouldn't mind Woodward getting a go. If capping Te'o's acceptable, why not him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I wouldn't mind Woodward getting a go. If capping Te'o's acceptable, why not him.

Completely forgot about Woodward would 100% have him as starting 15 in the summer.

Would love for us to build a backline that looked like this over time.
9) Robson
10) Farrell
11) Nowell
12) Slade
13) Daly
14) Watson
15) Woodward

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wot I think:

Marler - Did ok - tackled hard, scrummaged OK.
Hartley - Meh, looked a bit more agressive in the tackle. Big questions over leadership after that first half.
Cole - Did ok. Scrummaging went from bad to good.
Launchbury - Did well, later on, seemed to understand Italy's tactics and how to counter them better than most other players. Carried well again.
Lawes - Did pretty well too, definitely one of his better games. If he can play like this, he's going to push Kruis hard.
Itoje - Did well, more noticeable than in previous weeks.
Haskell - Did ok.
Hughes - Par for him. Meh... not convinced, the sooner we can try out Fearns/Ewers the better, IMO.
Care - Very mixed, should have realised the opportunity Italy's tactics were presenting in the first half. Took advantage well in the second. Still has a habit of throwing intercepts.
Ford - Some nice touches. Missed tackle was poor, he was roadblocking rather than tackling.
May - Fairly anonymous, relatively ineffectual in games that aren't very loose.
Farrell - Poor. I've never been a big fan of his, but he's played very well in this tournament, until today. Multiple significant unforced errors and poor from the tee.
Te'o - Went well, not much opportunity but didn't make any mistakes and executed his passes well.
Daly - Similar to Te'o.
Brown - Meh. Compounded Ford's poor mis-tackle by doing the same, a couple of moments when his running with the ball in one hand stifled an attacking opportunity in the first half.

George - Did well, lots of energy, solid basics.
Vunipola - Did ok.
Sinckler - Did well again. It's not down to luck that he makes breaks like that. As I've said before, if he can prove his scrummaging at this level, he's very hard to not pick IMO.
Wood - Didn't notice him. Which I suppose is a feat in itself for Tom.
Clifford - Didn't do much, noticed his physicality a little.
Youngs - Did ok, the side was dealing with Italy's tactics better, so a little hard to make too much direct comparison with Care.
Slade - Didn't do much, looked ok at the stuff he did do.
Nowell - Proved his class (as if he needed to). One of our first choice players.

Despite what pundits and Eddie have said, I think the slowness to react to what is an unorthodox, but not exactly unheard of tactic was incredibly disappointing, to say the least.
It's potentially exposed a severe lack of ability to react to what's happening.

I can understand being frustrated by it, and being shocked by it.. but taking over 30mins to adapt to it is unforgiveable.

The pundits who have come out and said they've never seen it before have outed themselves as people who don't watch much rugby, frankly.
It's common enough that an "expert" of the game should be well aware of it. Hardly surprising that people like Woodward and Dawson have never watched super rugby though...
And again, not surprising that Paulie is talking about the Chiefs doing it a couple of seasons ago.


My team for Scotland:

1. Marler/Vunipola (pros and cons to starting each player - horses...)
2. George
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. Itoje
7. Haskell
8. Hughes
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. JJ
14. Nowell
15. Brown

16. Hartley
17. Marler/Vunipola/Genge
18. Sinckler
19. Clifford
20. Harrison
21. Robson
22. Te'o
23. Watson

- - - Updated - - -

Watching his 6N's I really hope England use this tour to test out depht esp in the back row, shame no Saxons tour really.

Wouldn't mind this, myself:

1) Genge, Catt
2) Taylor, Cowan-Dickie
3) Sink, Hill
4) Lawes/Kruis, Ewels
5) Attwood, Isiekwe
6) Williams, Robshaw
7) Underhill, Kvesic
8) Chisholm, Fearns, Mercer
9) Robson, Spencer
10) Ford, Loz
11) Roko, Earle
12) Slade, Tompkins
13) T'eo, Tuilagi?
14) Wade, Odogwu, Cokanasiga
15) Woodward, Morris

 

[ratsapprentice]

Just for reference, when I criticise players like Haskell for "not being very good rugby players", this match is a perfect example of what I mean.

Not properly understanding the game, either technically, or tactically.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Odogwu and Cokanasiga are miles off that.

One playing champ rugby the other has been playing Nat 2 rugby the last 3 weeks. Both should be in the U20's RWC.


Manu is out for 9 months so won't be anywhere near fit.

Fearns and Earle are good shouts.

Isiekwe Again quite a bit of that level IMO would rather have someone like Barrow.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who's Morris at 15?
If you think Haley ain't going then imma slap you

Marchant likely to tour, do you think? Not been impressed with him but I know he's rated.
RIP Addison's international hopes

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Who's Morris at 15?
If you think Haley ain't going then imma slap you

Marchant likely to tour, do you think? Not been impressed with him but I know he's rated.
RIP Addison's international hopes

Morris played really well for Quins lately reckon he will be starter next season or one after spending on what brown does.

Yeh Marchant is rated for youngster but he has only ever been alright when I have seen him play in the prem, he has a good step but that's about it.