England 2024/25

[McTallshort]

My hope is Pollock and Kepu stay with the U20's this season, I feel they would be their chance of winning it and it's a good things to have that winning mentality early I feel.

My Summer squad would be
1. Baxter, Obano
2. LCD, Langdon, Oghre (Will be Dan though)
3. Heyes, AOF, Fasogabon
4. Coles, Clark
5. Martin, Hill
6. CCS, Kenningham
7. Curry, Pepper
8. Willis, Barbeary
9. JVP, Randall
10. Ford, Atkinson,
11. OHC, Radwan
12. Dingwall, Woodward
13. Beard, Ojomoh, Daly,
14. Roebuck,
15. Furbank, Carpenter

Won't LCD and Martin go with the Lions??

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Won't LCD and Martin go with the Lions??

LCD I reckon will miss out for George, I can see George going as 3rd option due to his off field stuff
Martin is touch and go due to his injury, I reckon Chessum played himself into the tour
Itoje, Bernie, Chessum are nailed down IMO. Martin got some tough competition in Grey, McCarthy and Ryan

Martin has a big end of season when fit I would back him

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Won't LCD and Martin go with the Lions??

I'd definitely be taking LCD, less sure on Martin at the moment.

I wouldn't be wholly shocked if Daly got a Lions call either - versatile, experienced etc.

 

[McTallshort]

I'd definitely be taking LCD, less sure on Martin at the moment.

I wouldn't be wholly shocked if Daly got a Lions call either - versatile, experienced etc.

Yeah Daly didn't have a bad six Nations to be fair

 

[Noonz]

My hope is Pollock and Kepu stay with the U20's this season, I feel they would be their chance of winning it and it's a good things to have that winning mentality early I feel.

My Summer squad would be
1. Baxter, Obano
2. LCD, Langdon, Oghre (Will be Dan though)
3. Heyes, AOF, Fasogabon
4. Coles, Clark
5. Martin, Hill
6. CCS, Kenningham
7. Curry, Pepper
8. Willis, Barbeary
9. JVP, Randall
10. Ford, Atkinson,
11. OHC, Radwan
12. Dingwall, Woodward
13. Beard, Ojomoh, Daly,
14. Roebuck,
15. Furbank, Carpenter

Both Smiths going with the Lions? No Murley?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Both Smiths going with the Lions? No Murley?

I reckon so.

Murley hmmmm IDK when he is going to be fit again, and after that England game he will need to have a stormer end of season once he gets fit. (Got to remember there is only like 6 games of the season left if a prem team misses the play offs (Quins won't beat Leinster in Europe)

 

[Geordie]

Whilst I think Chessum is a certainty, I can't see George Martin going on the lions..so if he's fit he needs a big summer tour, show what he really can offer in that tighthead lock role. Personally it needs to be more than we really saw on the 6n.

You look at Chessum and Itoje and they are influencing matches...Martin needs to start doing that.

Can't see Murley going on the tour to be honest. Other wingers have pushed ahead and others like OHC have really developed their game...so deserve a shot.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I hope Murley does go. Personal bias aside he just looks like he's having an absolutely fantastic time whenever he gets the ball and it's nice to see.

 

[Scotty]

I reckon so.

Murley hmmmm IDK when he is going to be fit again, and after that England game he will need to have a stormer end of season once he gets fit. (Got to remember there is only like 6 games of the season left if a prem team misses the play offs (Quins won't beat Leinster in Europe)

See I remember Murley in that game as having a pretty decent game with significant blunders, meaning defence and attack looked good but when the pressure was put on he lost it. I really think he needs gametime and should be with England if fit, he needs more than just the one cap to prove himself(vs ireland no less). you don't seem them mistakes for Quins

Murley deserves another shot especially given he's being deserving for a couple of years now I'd say.


On other players the ones I'd say we'll be without are
LCD
Stuart
Itoje
Chessum
TCurry
Mitchell
MSmith(as utility giving Fin more time with England)
Freeman

Possibly CCS as a Bolter just for the sheer physicality. Likely Genge goes too.

I hope only one Smith goes tbh. And 1 Curry

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Don't see Obano going either TBH. On merit he deserves to, but just seems to be another of those who successive coaches don't seem to fancy for whatever reason. And turning 31 later this year won't help.

Rodd probably and don't know if Eng are still thinking of AOF at LH.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

AOF was training the whole 6n and is about 21, I doubt his race is run

*edit
Ohh I see what you mean. I hope so, I'm quite bored of positional bingo and buggering players about so much

 

[Reiser99]

Whilst I think Chessum is a certainty, I can't see George Martin going on the lions..so if he's fit he needs a big summer tour, show what he really can offer in that tighthead lock role. Personally it needs to be more than we really saw on the 6n.

You look at Chessum and Itoje and they are influencing matches...Martin needs to start doing that.

Can't see Murley going on the tour to be honest. Other wingers have pushed ahead and others like OHC have really developed their game...so deserve a shot.

I feel that's a bit harsh on Martin. Yes he didn't have a big impact on the 6Ns and got injured again, but last year everyone was crying out for some power in the pack and he came in and everyone was singing his praises. Sure he needs some consistency, but he's certainly had impact on matches.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I feel that's a bit harsh on Martin. Yes he didn't have a big impact on the 6Ns and got injured again, but last year everyone was crying out for some power in the pack and he came in and everyone was singing his praises. Sure he needs some consistency, but he's certainly had impact on matches.

Yep. When he first came in he was having a big impact on matches, I'd go as far as saying he was setting the tone for the pack with his physicality as Underhill can.

That influence has tailed off even though some of his tackle stats etc were OK and there has been a succession of injuries. I guess it's about getting back to those levels, but fully fit and firing he'd 100% be on the plane to Aus,

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm really torn on Martin. Part of me thinks let him have the summer off to do a proper pre season for his longer term England career, but also part of me wants him in Argentina as he's our only other experienced lock.

I don't understand what is going on with Alex Cole's though, in camp but not 100% for originally, not trusted at all on the bench. He needs a big summer otherwise we need another 4th choice lock for England.

 

[BPM]

Don't see Obano going either TBH. On merit he deserves to, but just seems to be another of those who successive coaches don't seem to fancy for whatever reason. And turning 31 later this year won't help.

Rodd probably and don't know if Eng are still thinking of AOF at LH.

Yeah Rodd is definitely ahead of Obano.

Last summer it looked like Obano was set to be Genge's back up and the the red card in the final cost him a place in the NZ tour. Baxter came in and did well and has basically established himself in the 17 shirt.

Obano's had a pretty unlucky career TBH. But for injuries, he could have had 30+ caps now.

I think AOF is now viewed as a tighthead. His only cap so far was at tighthead and he seems to have been training there with England. I hope that's the case anyway as it never made sense to have him playing there for Sale but training as a loosehead for England.

 

[Geordie]

I feel that's a bit harsh on Martin. Yes he didn't have a big impact on the 6Ns and got injured again, but last year everyone was crying out for some power in the pack and he came in and everyone was singing his praises. Sure he needs some consistency, but he's certainly had impact on matches.

I dont think it is harsh really. Yes at his prime (like the World Cup game v South Africa) he was / is immense. His influence on the game was monumental. But in my opinion we dont consistently see that. Now that may well be due to a list of ****ly injuries stopping him from hitting full fitness and momentum etc...but to be the best is about playing top level consistently. Chessums had a bit part 6n due to injuries also, but his impact / influence in that limited time was very noticeable.
Just my useless opinion of course, but at the moment Chessum and Itoje would be the first choice lock pairing for England.

 

[Geordie]

Yeah Rodd is definitely ahead of Obano.

Last summer it looked like Obano was set to be Genge's back up and the the red card in the final cost him a place in the NZ tour. Baxter came in and did well and has basically established himself in the 17 shirt.

Obano's had a pretty unlucky career TBH. But for injuries, he could have had 30+ caps now.

I think AOF is now viewed as a tighthead. His only cap so far was at tighthead and he seems to have been training there with England. I hope that's the case anyway as it never made sense to have him playing there for Sale but training as a loosehead for England.

Yeah i agree, and with Baxter looking good and Haffar, Iyogun etc coming through, i cant see Obano getting much more of a look in with England.

I think the battle between him and Fasogabon (and Sela) for the 3 shirt could be fascinating. Little v Large. I personally think Heyes is only a stop gap.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think the battle between him and Fasogabon (and Sela) for the 3 shirt could be fascinating. Little v Large. I personally think Heyes is only a stop gap.

It's going to be an interesting one for sure. I actually like the way Heyes has developed - he's got a good amount of experience under his belt, he's a bigger unit than I thought and by his own admission he's really knuckled down and it shows. Bit like Stuart his trajectory is upwards heading towards his peak years.

Fasogbon, AOF and to a lesser extent Sela have all burst onto the scene very young having been dominant at age group and made decent starts to their senior careers. We might be looking at some future world superstars, but equally we might just be looking at guys who physically matured early and have done well as unknowns. Let's see how they stack up over the next few years with expectations on shoulders and targets on backs. The game's full of the next big things who weren't.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Personally i think Kenningham is better than Pearson.

But Pearson's brilliant on the Wattbike. WHAT ELSE MATTERS?

TBH Pearson has 8 written all over him for me. Don't know how much he's actually played there, but skill set wise it seems to suit him on paper. He probably drifts in and out of games a bit too much for flanker and is never going to be a perpetual in the opposition noses type at 7 like the Currys.

8 probably gives a little more scope for more irregular but big interventions and plays more to his strength of ball in hand. He's unquestionably quick and powerful and big enough - same height as Willis and between him and Earl in weight and probably a better line out option than either.

He's out of the Eng picture at the moment. But if he is to have an international future it's hard to see it in any shirt other than 8. Especially if a 3 open side type back row is SB's plan A.

 

[Geordie]

It's going to be an interesting one for sure. I actually like the way Heyes has developed - he's got a good amount of experience under his belt, he's a bigger unit than I thought and by his own admission he's really knuckled down and it shows. Bit like Stuart his trajectory is upwards heading towards his peak years.

Fasogbon, AOF and to a lesser extent Sela have all burst onto the scene very young having been dominant at age group and made decent starts to their senior careers. We might be looking at some future world superstars, but equally we might just be looking at guys who physically matured early and have done well as unknowns. Let's see how they stack up over the next few years with expectations on shoulders and targets on backs. The game's full of the next big things who weren't.

Yeah Heyes is a big lad about 6'3 and 19+ stone. We shall see, but i remain unconvinced. More than happy to be proved wrong of course as have been with Stuart in all fairness.
You are of course totally correct about "next big thing" failing to come through. The list is considerable.