England 2023/24

[LIONSxv]

Both with English parents


But yeah, I don't like either of them being selected - Roots the worst of the two, full product of New Zealand and has played for their A team, only here because he wasn't good enough for the ABs
IFW a little more sympathy for as he did go to school in England has gone to two RFU academies....but that's still a bit of a reach, as most of his development will have been through the Cardiff systems. He should be playing for Wales, it's clear from interviews before that that's what he's always wanted to do - I'm guessing he/his agent were told that the 25 cap rule isn't going anywhere and that's why he's then gone to England as second choice.

Their is also the element of his Dr's studies. Rejected from Cardiff Uni (dispite having the required grades) accepted at Exeter

 

[Welsh Exile]

I must admit this England squad looks bang average but I'm not an expert on all these players. Noting is changing my mind that England and Wales are going to be battling it out for least **** country this year. Scotland not far ahead either.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Their is also the element of his Dr's studies. Rejected from Cardiff Uni (dispite having the required grades) accepted at Exeter

Yeah that's what I mean - I imagine he's said I need to be in Exeter for 5 years or whatever and they've said you need 25 caps by the time you sign a new deal, so he's turned to England instead

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I must admit this England squad looks bang average

See I'd say this a pretty big upgrade on the world cup squad, but it all depends on the players picked on game day (and gameplans)

 

[Welsh Exile]

See I'd say this a pretty big upgrade on the world cup squad, but it all depends on the players picked on game day (and gameplans)

Yeah this is true and I'm probably honing in on your Cole's, Roots and Marlers (I know the latter is much loved on here but I think he's overated. Decent scrummaging but good at nothing else other than being a WUM)

You'll probably still have enough to beat us at Twickenham in the second game but low benchmark. Any team worth their salt should be putting 40 points on us and I don't think this England squad has the minerals to do that to us even at home. I'm wrong about most things though.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah this is true and I'm probably honing in on your Cole's, Roots and Marlers (I know the latter is much loved on here but I think he's overated. Decent scrummaging but good at nothing else other than being a WUM)

You'll probably still have enough to beat us at Twickenham in the second game but low benchmark. Any team worth their salt should be putting 40 points on us and I don't think this England squad has the minerals to do that to us even at home. I'm wrong about most things though.

How can you score 40 points by playing kick chase bother ball? We will win by 3 points or something stupid unless SB has grown a pair and actually wants to play rugby.

 

[Welsh Exile]

How can you score 40 points by playing kick chase bother ball? We will win by 3 points or something stupid unless SB has grown a pair and actually wants to play rugby.

True but doesn't help having average front 5 players. I've grown up always associating England with an exceptionally strong front 5 and now I look at it and just think meh. Game plan is for sure important but players win you games. Look at Irelands and Frances front 5 and they win no matter what their game plan is.

 

[Reiser99]

Like always, there is the potential for a good squad here. My issue is still around the gameplan. If we continue to kick aimless, especially outside the opposing 22 hoping for a mistake then I'll fully be on board the get Borthwick out train. Kicking is important, but a gameplan based around hoping to pressure the opposition into mistakes and giving them the ball back is just bad.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF Cole and Marler took it to the SA scrum for 65 minutes.
Granted that might be a fluke.


really I don't see many alternatives popping up for either that make me go wtf are they out.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Haven't seen it mentioned much yet but I really like George as captain. He's a genuinely likeable guy who should get on well with the refs and perhaps even be able to tame the media a bit (although that's unlikely). He's very passionate but also not prone to bouts of anger or hot-headedness. He's clearly 1st choice in his position and likely will be for a couple more years. He knows how to win games and has been part of very successful campaigns at international and club level.

The only thing I'm not so keen on is that he won't be playing the full 80 but that's not the end of the world. Also means that someone else will get captaincy experience in the last 20 mins of games so should be comfortable stepping up when George is moved on.

Can't argue with that.

Should all add up, but also fair to point out that he has very little captaincy experience. Seems to deal with media OK, but that's a whole different ball game as captain.

Happy to be corrected but don't think he's even been a VC? Lawes and Genge were in the RWC and even Binny's been one.

As captain you have loads running through your head over and above your own game. Often wondered whether Farrell's goal kicking was effected by being unable to fully clear his head. Maintaining precision in the line outs may be a similar challenge for George.

I'm sure he'll be OK but, good guy that he is, it smacks of an interim because there's no-one else appointment.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I wonder if Roots will be the first person of Maori heritage to represent England in any sport.

 

[Geordie]

I wonder if Roots will be the first person of Maori heritage to represent England in any sport.

Was Flutey along those lines?

Or Vainikolo, Hape? Henry Paul

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wonder if Roots will be the first person of Maori heritage to represent England in any sport.

Shontayne Hape and Ricki Flutey, probably some others I've forgotten about too

Was Flutey along those lines?

Or Vainikolo, Hape? Henry Paul

Snap! Haha
Think Vainikolo is Tongan, not sure about HP

 

[Crash Hamster]

'George Martin, Manu Tuilagi, Anthony Watson, Raffi Quirke and Jack van Poortvliet have all been named as part of the squad but on a 'rehabilitation list'.

It's likely these players would come under serious consideration for squad selection if and when they regain the fitness needed to train with the wider group.'

Says the Telegraph.

Never have too many scrum halves...

 

[Wasps92]

Like always, there is the potential for a good squad here. My issue is still around the gameplan. If we continue to kick aimless, especially outside the opposing 22 hoping for a mistake then I'll fully be on board the get Borthwick out train. Kicking is important, but a gameplan based around hoping to pressure the opposition into mistakes and giving them the ball back is just bad.

Yeah true. Phil Dowson is doing an incredible job at Northampton and they're very easy on the eye. His stock is rising by the week. Next England HC?

 

[Saintjay]

True but doesn't help having average front 5 players. I've grown up always associating England with an exceptionally strong front 5 and now I look at it and just think meh. Game plan is for sure important but players win you games. Look at Irelands and Frances front 5 and they win no matter what their game plan is.

Ireland and France front five win no matter the game plan. Maybe against six nations teams and certainty not when it matters.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah true. Phil Dowson is doing an incredible job at Northampton and they're very easy on the eye. His stock is rising by the week. Next England HC?

they are having one good season currently and it's in a World Cup year which affects things.

Let's see how it goes not just just the business end of the season but also the next couple years before we start saying England head coach.

Borthwick got picked off one good season and it was big mistake imo.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Was Flutey along those lines?

Or Vainikolo, Hape? Henry Paul

He was partial to a nationality change so I guess Scotland will come calling soon enough……

 

[Geordie]

they are having one good season currently and it's in a World Cup year which affects things.

Let's see how it goes not just just the business end of the season but also the next couple years before we start saying England head coach.

Borthwick got picked off one good season and it was big mistake imo.

How much did his previous international work play in this aswell? Being understudy to Jones for umpteen years

 

[LIONSxv]

Ireland and France front five win no matter the game plan. Maybe against six nations teams and certainty not when it matters.

It's the front row that is the concern. A Martin/Itoje/Chessum lock combo is pretty strong in my opinion. When Martin/Chessum have a dozen or more International games under their belt-id go as far to say as very good