England 2021/22

[BrokenWing]

I can see it going one of two ways.

Either Eddie gives young players time to bed in and prove themselves.

Or gives Farrell and others chance to get some international game time after injury.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Jones needs some proper tactics and some players to carry those out. We definitely need to have a better balance in our backline and keep a balance in our pack (which isn't always there).

It has felt like the last 3 years or so our tactics and selections are holding us back and yet Jones seems to stand by them when they don't work.

I have a suspicion we will see farrell, Binny, mako etc all back and a change of tactics/ style again before we go out in the quarters of the World Cup. Really can't see Jones suddenly changing and having a decent selection or tactics all of a sudden.

 

[HamJan]

Eddie's here till the RWC, no way they'll get rid of him 18months out so might as well accept the chaos of selection until then.

What are peoples hopes for the Australia tour? I kind of want to see a France style tour with a multitude of debutants and guys with 1-10 caps really tested away against a tier 1 side. However I don't think Eddie will go quite that far (might be similar to the SA tour in 18 with some guys rested but majority of the efforts choice team taken). Also it might be too late to experiment that widely since we're 18 months away from the start of the RWC.

Anyway, would like to see as a mix up with some guys rested so something like:

Genge, George, Stuart, Isiekwe, Hill, J Willis, Curry, Dombrandt
Randall, Smith, Cokanasiga, Kelly, Slade, Radwan, Steward
Subs: Blamire, Rodd, Heyes, Chessum, Barbeary, Quirke, Farrell, Marchant

Let guys like Itoje/Sinckler/Lawes sit the tour out.

The SA tour was on the back of the 2017 Lions tour and certain players were rested accordingly. I think we'll get a better idea of Eddie's thoughts towards a settled squad from the Australia tour into the AIs.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I am looking forward to the summer tests tbh

 

[NickBD]

These bits stand out to me with the RFU statement:



They're making it sound like he's just parachuted into the side to quickly build up to the world cup, rather than being in charge for 7 years
Obviously there'll be transitional periods in squads, but they're completely writing off his failure to plan for the future/bring through replacements/build adequate depth in key positions over the past 3-7 years

Might be just me but the speed they released these statements was odd. They had at the ready almost at the final whistle on Saturday. RFU usually wait a few days or weeks to address this but they went in instantly which tells me something is up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The honeymoon period is definitely over

 

[Umaga's Witness]

You're all going to be so happy when you get your wish for Eddie to be chopped, and in comes gatland . There's no dislike button anymore

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

All fair points. Jones' biggest hurdle is Jones. If he got over himself he'd be a better coach.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What's Richard Hill's role in all this? He's been 'Team Manager' for a few years now but I have no idea what that means.

The Telegraph article on his assistants reckons he's used 17 so far:

Defence: Gustard, Michell and Siebold

Attack: Wiesmantel, Amor, Gleeson

Forwards / Scrum: Borthwick, Hatley, Proudfoot, Cockers

Skills: Teague, Vesty, Ryles, Robinson

Team Manager: Hill

Consultant backs: Ella

Line out: Codling

There are plenty of individual stories there but whatever the reasons that lack of continuity can't have helped. Also too many baffling appointments.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Some points are fair others are BS nonsense.
1. I agree but at the same time sometimes it does work for example Lawes IMO, it's a balance the problem for me is not picking the best players whilst experimenting case in point Furbank over Malins v France it was IMO a good experiment in practice but not Furbank
2. Has his selection been that much of a merry-go-round? Outside the last 12 months wasn't the problem that Jones was picking other players?
3. How many staff has he actually fired? Half those coaches listed was always temp for a tour type coaches, 3 left for Head coach roles at prem clubs and 1 returned to his home union.
4. Mind games are fine, it's literally Eddie's personality. The funny thing is if a player was to do it Bracken would be the first to say how players should be encouraged. The sport needs personalities no one wants a world of Lancasters
5. I think fans would rather wins than Tries granted both are linked but the idea that fans need to be excited is not something I agree with.
6. Dan Robson is no where near a Great prem player IMO he prob needed a shot but he lacked a lot of game management and control, he had moments of great. Pundits need to stop thinking Prem = International.
7. I agree with stop excuses for loses
8. Disagree about using Six Nations as prep for a RWC, he's literally brought in for the RWC nothing else.
9. I agree, I don't mind during a lions year tbh because the season is already a mess due to the tour, but outside that time. That being said for all his faults from what I heard his lack of focus is not one of them (Actually it's to a point where some of assistant coaches struggle to handle him can't have it both ways)
10. I 100% agree with that.

 

[Scotty]

Some points are fair others are BS nonsense.
1. I agree but at the same time sometimes it does work for example Lawes IMO, it's a balance the problem for me is not picking the best players whilst experimenting case in point Furbank over Malins v France it was IMO a good experiment in practice but not Furbank
2. Has his selection been that much of a merry-go-round? Outside the last 12 months wasn't the problem that Jones was picking other players?
3. How many staff has he actually fired? Half those coaches listed was always temp for a tour type coaches, 3 left for Head coach roles at prem clubs and 1 returned to his home union.
4. Mind games are fine, it's literally Eddie's personality. The funny thing is if a player was to do it Bracken would be the first to say how players should be encouraged. The sport needs personalities no one wants a world of Lancasters
5. I think fans would rather wins than Tries granted both are linked but the idea that fans need to be excited is not something I agree with.
6. Dan Robson is no where near a Great prem player IMO he prob needed a shot but he lacked a lot of game management and control, he had moments of great. Pundits need to stop thinking Prem = International.
7. I agree with stop excuses for loses
8. Disagree about using Six Nations as prep for a RWC, he's literally brought in for the RWC nothing else.
9. I agree, I don't mind during a lions year tbh because the season is already a mess due to the tour, but outside that time. That being said for all his faults from what I heard his lack of focus is not one of them (Actually it's to a point where some of assistant coaches struggle to handle him can't have it both ways)
10. I 100% agree with that.

See i agree with him on stop using 6N for prep, because of what it means to the fans, by all means use summer tour and AI, and italy but not the whole 6N. But i do agree we cant win everything and we need to sacrafice something to trial new tactics and players but not the 6N IMO

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

See i agree with him on stop using 6N for prep, because of what it means to the fans, by all means use summer tour and AI, and italy but not the whole 6N. But i do agree we cant win everything and we need to sacrafice something to trial new tactics and players but not the 6N IMO

But I guess at the same time it's the perfect place to try something as the pressure is the closest you will get to RWC knock outs on the whole.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

RFU can't be happy with the 6N positions considering each spot in the table is worth like half a mil? a mil? in prize money, and they're poor AF atm

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

My take:

1. Agreed. You ought to have a really exceptional reason for playing players out of their best position

2. With some players / positions / squads it has been a merry go round but in others it's been the opposite. I think it's that inconsistency that grates allied to the timing of some of the changes.

3. There does need to be consistency in the coaching team and we haven't had that. There also needs to be some fresh blood from time to time, but a combination of interim appointments, union virgins, overseas based and a 7s specialist was always unlikely to result in more change than necessary over and above natural career moves (if that's what Gustard, Mitchell etc were).

4. I don't mind mind games. But they need to be clever not crass.

5. I prefer winning to tries per se. But the way the game is now, tries generally equate to wins. And no question that we have definitely needed a sharper cutting edge for a while.

6. Great prem doesn't equate to good international - I agree with Jones in that, but Prem and Europe form is all we have to go on, so how else do you judge?

7. All we ask for is for him to be honest and rational

8. World Cup seems to be Jones be all and end all. Whether we as fans like it or not he seems to be supported by the RFU in that. If that's the brief he's been given by his paymasters it's nuts but would justify his emphasis. Different question entirely if he's persuaded the RFU it should be that way.

9. Totally agree.

10. Totally agree.

 

[Jakedood]

Interesting stat today from Charlie Morgan

Of Englands 38 recorded entries to the opposition 22, here's how they ended

9- Handling Errors/Poor Passes
8- Tries
6- Breakdown Turnovers conceded
5- Penalty Kicks
4- Lineouts Lost
2- Kicks not retained
2- Held up
1- Scrum Lost
1- Tackled into touch

Damning that only 33% of the time they came away with some form of points

Of the tries scored

4- Off lineout play
2- Off regathered kicks
1- Dombrandt v Wales
1- Scrum

 

[ncurd]

I don't mind the RWC being be all and end all its absolutely how we should focus a 4 year cycle.

The problem is I don't see how 1st, 5th, 3rd (by sheer luck) is making good progress to a world cup.

Look at France, 2nd, 2nd, 1st (GS) and now rightly tipped as hot favourites for the tournament.
Even England 2003 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st (GS)

6 Nations success breeds better success and is our best barometer on how the side is progressing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I see the RWC as a culmination and obvious peak, but not at the expense of everything else as seems to be the case now (although that may be convenient excuse). At the end of the day only one team can win it and if it's the sole focus that can all be undone by one bounce of a funny shaped ball or a bit of bad luck / debateable reffing….we could be 4 time champions if it wasn't for Campese's knock on, Cueto's try and Itoje's elbow.

As for Fra we need to remember how bad a place they were in - not won the ***le since 2010 and their record previous to the years mentioned from 2015 was 4th, 5th, 3rd, 4th and 4th. They had an exceptional crop of youngsters coming through but I doubt they'd have got away with stripping things back quite the way they did without a home RWC to focus on. But if you have a cohesive team that performs in 6N and AI then guess what, you're in a pretty good place for a RWC.

We've come off the back of a final last time out with 21 of the 23 on duty that day still playing. Some have now fallen out of favour or are injured but there's really been little excuse for this new team not to have evolved more naturally.

 

[Geordie]

Surely...it should be evolution through the years.

Focus on wining each competition your in, and bring in new players as and when its required, or they are playing so well they demand inclusion.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Surely...it should be evolution through the years.

Focus on wining each competition your in, and bring in new players as and when its required, or they are playing so well they demand inclusion.

Absolutely. On the introduction of new players the timing should be with foresight so that when an established player does need replacing their successor is clearly identified and relatively oven ready with appearances off the bench etc. Think Hartley / George or McCaw / Cane, or even Mako-Marler / Genge, not what 20 year old went well against Worcester last week on his 6th Prem appearance.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I also don't buy the idea that "peaking" for a world cup means you must therefore be **** in between. Obviously in between you can try new things and it can take a while to bed in but it should be a continuous progression. Jones seems to claim that England can have some of their worst performances in recent memory but that's fine because it's building towards something. The other thing is you don't sandbag right up to a tournament then suddenly have it all click, we have to be putting our tactics to the test on the field and seeing just how it works. If we are doing that currently then what's the excuse for such poor and aimless performances? Where is the clear tactical plan other than just booting it all the time? Nothing wrong with kicking to achieve an aim, as the French and ABs do, but our is just doing it because we don't know what else to do, hence why it's so ineffective.

In the year leading up to the world cup, we should have a pretty settled team and tactics with the process now being tuning it to operate at peak efficiency. We should not be scrabbling around trying to cobble something together at this stage.