England 2021/22

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Coleman as well.

 

[BPM]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

So Lynagh for Aus looking like a cert?

Not really 'a cert'. Or at least not yet. The back three isn't where they're struggling and it would be a bit desperate to immediately turn to a guy with a sum total of 12 senior appearances.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not really 'a cert'. Or at least not yet. The back three isn't where they're struggling and it would be a bit desperate to immediately turn to a guy with a sum total of 12 senior appearances.

Or they cap him this autumn so England doesn't further down the line

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not really 'a cert'. Or at least not yet. The back three isn't where they're struggling and it would be a bit desperate to immediately turn to a guy with a sum total of 12 senior appearances.

I mean didn't you want him to get picked for England this summer?

I don't think there is anything desperate to capture a player now.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

So Lynagh for Aus looking like a cert?

I understand the rationale behind not playing overseas based players, but that list of non-available players is shocking. Massively reduces the options for the coaches and I've always wondered if that sort of thing is legally watertight.

 

[BPM]

I might have picked Lynagh as part of an experimental squad in a Lions year but not in the proper squad ATM. Sure he's got plenty of promise, but he wouldn't be one of our top 4/5 back three players.

If Australia are using this change properly, they'll call-up the experienced locks and Japan-based players they've been missing.

 

[BPM]

I understand the rationale behind not playing overseas based players, but that list of non-available players is shocking. Massively reduces the options for the coaches and I've always wondered if that sort of thing is legally watertight.

It's a long list, but how many of those actually make the side/23? Kerevi for sure plus the locks like Arnold, Coleman, Simmons and Skelton, maybe Sean McMahon and Beale?

Beyond that, I'd argue picking the likes of Phipps, Genia and Foley is a retrograde step. 75% of that list would be nowhere near the test squad.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

So Lynagh for Aus looking like a cert?

**** sake

 

[Geordie]

Ah no probs about Lynagh....the Falcons alone have a few more Radwans coming through...and the rest of the prem have some cracking young back three players coming through. England is in good hands.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's a long list, but how many of those actually make the side/23? Kerevi for sure plus the locks like Arnold, Coleman, Simmons and Skelton, maybe Sean McMahon and Beale?

Beyond that, I'd argue picking the likes of Phipps, Genia and Foley is a retrograde step. 75% of that list would be nowhere near the test squad.

You're right although sometimes 2 or 3 players can change the whole dynamic of a team. Particularly for Aus who have a good track record of making the most out of limited resources

And while I can't say I know a lot about everyone on the list, some might be later developers or useful backups in the event of injury.

Anyway this is supposed to be an Eng thread….

 

[TW27BA]

Controversial piece without substance.
Wilson and JJ yes, but May and Billy V?

Four 'past it' players who won't play for England again - Ruck

Eddie Jones has promised change moving forward following their dismal Six Nations showing back in February and March.

www.ruck.co.uk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wouldn't be against May dropping out tbh,
Poor form since going back to Gloucester and will be 33 at the next world cup (which is real old for a winger who relies on speed more than any other asset)

 

[BPM]

You're not the first to say you're no longer fussed about May, but it still surprises me TBH. I'd agree he had a poor season with Gloucester and a poor 6 Nations (you could say that entire squad). However, the year prior to that he was still playing well even if England weren't (the two tries against France for example).

He used to be all about pace, but his aerial ability has massively improved (to the point where I'd regard as a definite strength) along with his defence. He was so rapid to begin with that he's probably still quicker than all but Radwan.

Ultimately if he has another poor season it's curtains, but if he's back in form, I think we'd be foolish to drop him too soon.

As much as I love what Wilson has brought to England, his race is probably run. If Billy is left out for the AIs, I wouldn't complain and I don't know if he'd be able (or motivated enough) to get back in to the mix. JJ already seems to be out of favour.

 

[Reiser99]

Controversial piece without substance.
Wilson and JJ yes, but May and Billy V?

Four 'past it' players who won't play for England again - Ruck

Eddie Jones has promised change moving forward following their dismal Six Nations showing back in February and March.

www.ruck.co.uk

Wilson, JJ and May are already over 30 so I can see them not being picked again. Joseph definitely as Jones is already picking other centres over him. Wilson has not been a bad player, but there are certainly better, younger options coming through. May's form has dropped and again there are younger players performing better in the premiership.

Billy V is 28, so in terms of age I wouldn't say his England career is over. However, on form he certainly shouldn't be picked until he shows a real improve in the premiership.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You're not the first to say you're no longer fussed about May, but it still surprises me TBH. I'd agree he had a poor season with Gloucester and a poor 6 Nations (you could say that entire squad). However, the year prior to that he was still playing well even if England weren't (the two tries against France for example).

Going back two seasons to justify inclusion is dangerously close to Saracens "credit in the bank"

Get what you mean, though, and I'm not against him being there - just think we need to weigh up how much time there is until the next world cup vs how much game time our options get
Is he likely to still be a top level international at 33? If not/not likely, then we need to be investing time in his replacement - we've barely looked at our wing depth (capping Joseph on the wing...)
Don't want to give him a free pass for another season then have a mad rush to find a replacement pre-RWC (the Danny Care situation from last time)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Listen if May wanted to be a England player he shouldn't have gone to Gloucester

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

JJ and Wilson definitely out of contention now. No point investing any more caps in either. Billy V could still have a place if he finds form but only if he finds it. On current form, he is out. May is getting on in years and I can't see him going to the next world cup but I think it is unfair to class him as a speedster and nothing else, he offers so much more than just raw pace and has done so for a while. Like Billy V, his form needs to pick up but if it does I think he could stick around but more as a backup if the younger players fail to impress.

Personally I would have had Farrell and Youngs on the list. Farrell in particular has been worse than average, he's been bloody awful. There aren't many 10's or 12's out there in tier 1 teams that have performed worse the last year or so. Hell even the Italians have operated at the same or higher level than Farrell. Short of a gigantic turnaround in form, I'd have bet his England career was over. Don't think it will be though, for whatever reason the perception of him among coaches is radically different to what I see on the field and I really can't fathom what it is but there you go.

 

[Geordie]

Mark Wilson - Yes, i think he'll have played his last game. Loads of young contenders to take his place. Ludlum in particular has been impressing...and hes aggressive.

Joseph - Again, yes....but the young pretenders arent singing yet. Lawrence hasnt really taken his chance, and Marchant needs a genuine run at 13....not on the wing here and there.

May - Agree with BPM, hes been a classy operator, and his defence is very good. Lets see how he starts the season with Glos. If he doesnt turn up again...then yes we have 4/5 genuine contenders for his spot....Radwan, Hassle Collins, Slightholme, Cokasaniga back in the frame...etc

Billy V - Again, lets see if he comes back rejuvenated from his season off in the champs, or if he is genuinely falling away now. Dombrandt is in pole position...but Tom Willis is really starting to impress aswell...and if he bulldozes through the start of the season could very well challenge.

And i also agree Farrell is an issue for me also...but who replaces him...?

 

[BPM]

Perhaps, but the Lions tour will have done Farrell no favours.

As obtuse as Eddie can be in persevering with players who are out of form, he can also be brutal in other situations (see Dylan Hartley). As much as I expect to see Farrell back for the AIs, it's not an absolute certainty.

With May, I'd prefer to reserve judgment for now. If he gets back to form, I wouldn't use age alone as the only barrier, but I agree we need to make sure we invest in game time for potential replacements.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Perhaps, but the Lions tour will have done Farrell no favours.

As obtuse as Eddie can be in persevering with players who are out of form, he can also be brutal in other situations (see Dylan Hartley). As much as I expect to see Farrell back for the AIs, it's not an absolute certainty.

With May, I'd prefer to reserve judgment for now. If he gets back to form, I wouldn't use age alone as the only barrier, but I agree we need to make sure we invest in game time for potential replacements.

Yep. I've always liked Farrell but he's looked like he's been on the downhill slope for a while now. Time to move on.

May definitely looks like he needs to relocate his mojo. Giving Radwan a shot will let us look at another option and give May a kick up the backside which everyone needs from time to time. Similarly with Binny and Dombrandt and while that's a change I'd like to see permanently, an irritated, motivated Binny isn't a bad trick to have up the sleeve....and if he doesn't respond to the challenge then we move on.

Wingers are a bit of a peripheral issue though. Sorting out 8, 9 and 10 and giving those players particularly more licence to play the game that got them selected in the first place are the main priorities along with a proper FB. I'm taking it as read that the centres will continue to be a sh*tshow.