England 2021/22

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah, there's lots of leaders in the side but no real captains,
I don't rate Farrell as captain at all, but he will almost definitely get it
My 1st choice (and presumably Eddie's 2nd choice) would be Lawes - he's done decent enough with it when Farrell's been away

I always thought Curry was heir apparent but he wasn't great with it during the 6N. I reckon he's Sale's next captain (especially with Faf off, who was vice captain this season, with Tom third) so maybe he'll grow into it, only 23 so plenty of time to

Yep I don't think Farrell's very good at it but it's also definitely been to the detriment of his own game. And the worse he's got, the harder he's tried and the worse he's got. Vicious circle stuff.

Lawes would be obvious.

But what we probably need is someone like Marler. Been around the block so commands respect and knows what high level performance takes, but also a bit of a character who I suspect wouldn't be cowed by Jones. Not saying it should be Marler, he's not first choice and for all I know he hasn't captained since the u12s, but someone who could inject challenge while also lifting the mood. From the outside looking in it seems like a very serious camp. Maybe even Genge.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Yep I don't think Farrell's very good at it but it's also definitely been to the detriment of his own game. And the worse he's got, the harder he's tried and the worse he's got. Vicious circle stuff.

Lawes would be obvious.

But what we probably need is someone like Marler. Been around the block so commands respect and knows what high level performance takes, but also a bit of a character who I suspect wouldn't be cowed by Jones. Not saying it should be Marler, he's not first choice and for all I know he hasn't captained since the u12s, but someone who could inject challenge while also lifting the mood. From the outside looking in it seems like a very serious camp. Maybe even Genge.

It is interesting when you hear Quins' players interviewed after another of their second half comebacks, they almost without exception comment that "Marler had a few words at half time"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Marler's another that I think is a good leader but not captain material - can't imagine him having a good rapport with referees at all (not that Farrell does)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I struggle to see Marler just having a few words.

I like Marler a lot.
But there is a big difference between leadership at club and country. Reality is a few choice words at international level won't turn around a 15+ difference at half time

 

[BPM]

Marler's another that I think is a good leader but not captain material - can't imagine him having a good rapport with referees at all (not that Farrell does)

This. He was Quins captain for one season and it didn't go particularly well. He openly said he didn't enjoy it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's hard, the onfield stuff is critical but only a part of it. Setting the tone in training, in down time and challenging the coaches are all factors too. I've suggested Launch here before but I just don't think he's guaranteed to be in the team any more.

Lawes isn't perfect, but probably the best compromise candidate.

 

[Geordie]

Genge does seem to be impressing with his Captaincy and is getting better with his performances at this level....i just worry his performances will go backwards with his move to Bristol like they did with Sinkler.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Genge does seem to be impressing with his Captaincy and is getting better with his performances at this level....i just worry his performances will go backwards with his move to Bristol like they did with Sinkler.

Yep, although the home town thing is a big differentiator in motivations.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF don't think motivation is sinks problem

 

[higgik]

Farrell will be the 12 until the WC...get used to it...then we can look at Ojomoh, Kelly, Ollie Hartley, Seb Atkinson or whichever kids come off the rank.

Im not a big Farrell fan, but the one thing i will say is that Farrell has been a big part of some of Englands best rugby over the years...and if hes got his mojo back then that can only be a good thing. I read a report from the attack coach stating that Farrell is brutal for being on point with the plan and just does all the basics so well. He will allow Smith to just play how he does for Quins, head ups rugby.

And lets face it...we have no other options at 12...so id rather Farrell was really back in his pomp.

So true, Goode is the eyes of the Sarries backline. He just tells Farrell what to do if something is on. So plan A is trusted to work, but if sonething better is seen, Goode makes the call, trusting tgat Farrell will execute the change.
Hopefully Smith and Farrell can do same.
Ford has never been a good communicator and therefore the plan was always used rayher than geads up rugby.

 

[BPM]

Is that last sentence a joke?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So true, Goode is the eyes of the Sarries backline. He just tells Farrell what to do if something is on. So plan A is trusted to work, but if sonething better is seen, Goode makes the call, trusting tgat Farrell will execute the change.
Hopefully Smith and Farrell can do same.
Ford has never been a good communicator and therefore the plan was always used rayher than geads up rugby.

Not really sure how you came to that conclusion, multiple times Ford has mixed it up. Consistently the biggest thing that has prevented Ford from playing more heads up rugby is Jones ridiculous rigid gameplan and having Farrell outside him at 12, who would often butcher an overlap if Ford passed him the ball to pass it on. When Ford had Youngs at 9 and Farrell at 12, it massively hindered his ability to play on the fly as all the time was taken away from him and any options that would require going through Farrell would often not be executed once the ball got to Farrell.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's some u23 side

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Seems like Isiekwe and Earl have been around for ages, if someone asked I'd have guessed they were 25 or 26

 

[Lé Ddanno]

They're both 24!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Guessing the 23 cut off is start of season, not end

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1 team making up a third of that squad

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Squidge has lost his mind.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Squidge has lost his mind.

This implies he ever had it,

What's he said now?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This implies he ever had it,

What's he said now?

England to win the 2023 RWC. Utterly baffling.