End of the Saint-André era

[FrenchFan]

The one good thing about that Eng-Fra game other than its entertainment value is that it signals the end of the Saint-André era. This is the ONE and only game of the last 3.5 yrs Fra have ever turned up.

This is an awful defeat in line with the last 3.5 yrs, but at least the players got their performance.

I've asked many rugby people around me: not one could come up with a performance to remember from the PSA era. Not one game stood out before today's.

The difference btw the 2 sides over the last 4 yrs is poles apart. England have been building patiently with a long term plan, a steady group of players, a young 10 who has the full support (unlike our fly-halves) and players ready to repay the staff for their trust - this is the exact opposite of the Blue Barnum of the last 3.5 yrs.

Why would they finally decide to play when there was nothing to play for? To me there are 3 reasons. One is that the Saint-André Lagisquet shackles are starting to come off. The 2nd is the players took charge of that game. This one didn't come from the staff as Fra have never produced a performance under the current staff. This was the players making a statement, which coincides with the staff's last 6N in charge. Three, the players have started to focus on their WC.

This is players starting to take control. The staff cannot take any credit for today's performance. They will try and we'll get the media BS all week trying to milk the 'positives' for the staff's personal gain. All the changes they made were forced (Plisson, Debatty, Fickou, Mermoz etc) not chosen. Plisson was thrown in at the deep end at Twickenham. They didn't do him a favour. He has been in fine form all season with his club relegating Morney Steyn to the bench. They called him back when they were stuck after Lopez was summoned home by his club. They used him as a filler. Now Tales must be wondering what he is doing in the group. And Lopez's gone back to Clermont.

Under Saint-André it's NEVER been the staff's fault, always the players.

There is a massive generation gap with the playrers. Blanco Lagisquet and Saint-André belong to the amateur era of the 80s. Their rugby language is that of the 80s. They're not on the same wavelength as the professionals they claim to coach.

The staff are mere figureheads. The latest war of words with Clermont this week showed how toothless and useless FFr truly are. Clermont only had to bang their fist on the table to get their way and their player back.

Now les Bleus need Parra and FTD back as their playmakers and to get some leadership back into the group. And lock away Blanco and Lagisquet for the next 6 mths.
If these players have enough cojones they will coach themselves at the WC.

 

[Tony Manx]

First class post other than I seem to recall at least one famous victory at an autumn international being Australia or South Africa? Was it at Nantes? Seem to remember BigEwis ( ah memories) banging on about it?

As regards Budda and his side kick Lagisquet.... Please keep them as far away from Biarritz as possible and if that means the national side losing, so be it!!!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

First class post other than I seem to recall at least one famous victory at an autumn international being Australia or South Africa? Was it at Nantes? Seem to remember BigEwis ( ah memories) banging on about it?

As regards Budda and his side kick Lagisquet.... Please keep them as far away from Biarritz as possible and if that means the national side losing, so be it!!!!!!

I'll have to look it up I can't remember either :lol: just what I was saying!

 

[gaston le gaff]

Although i thoroughly enjoyed all the games yesterday one game does not, create a brilliant team ( France) who still lost by 20 pts. The idea of the players taking charge and making a statement is fine but this is by no means the first or second time that it has happened. PSA is still there and it is he who is the selectioner until after the WC, so how is this going to change anything. Although i agree with French Fan's post, he is still clutching at straws if the truth is known. PSA knows his carrottes sont cuit, but he will milk every chance he has, to shown how good he is, cant wait for A2 Sport this afternoon where he is a guest. The way the 3 games pannned out yesterday was perfect, Wales set the target, Ireland then beat the target, leaving England knowing exactly what they had to do, they came up just short but produced a match of great entertainment, some purists may have negative thoughts, but it just shows that if teams want to play running rugby as there was nothing to win by only just winning the game they can.
The very fact that PSA is still in charge does mean that come the WC there will be no change and even England will go back to their normal game.
I'm afraid this was a one off situation where the stats need to win the Championship were laid down so well without anyone knowing it and hence the fantastic day of rugby we all had.
Bravo Ireland, but also to the other 5 teams that produced rugby that we see not to often these days this will go down as a great days rugby no more no less.

 

[Tony Manx]

Although i thoroughly enjoyed all the games yesterday one game does not, create a brilliant team ( France) who still lost by 20 pts. The idea of the players taking charge and making a statement is fine but this is by no means the first or second time that it has happened. PSA is still there and it is he who is the selectioner until after the WC, so how is this going to change anything. Although i agree with French Fan's post, he is still clutching at straws if the truth is known. PSA knows his carrottes sont cuit, but he will milk every chance he has, to shown how good he is, cant wait for A2 Sport this afternoon where he is a guest. The way the 3 games pannned out yesterday was perfect, Wales set the target, Ireland then beat the target, leaving England knowing exactly what they had to do, they came up just short but produced a match of great entertainment, some purists may have negative thoughts, but it just shows that if teams want to play running rugby as there was nothing to win by only just winning the game they can.
The very fact that PSA is still in charge does mean that come the WC there will be no change and even England will go back to their normal game.
I'm afraid this was a one off situation where the stats need to win the Championship were laid down so well without anyone knowing it and hence the fantastic day of rugby we all had.
Bravo Ireland, but also to the other 5 teams that produced rugby that we see not to often these days this will go down as a great days rugby no more no less.

Totally agree with all that! Talk about mixed metaphors though.....carrots acooking and milk aspilling!!!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

Cooking was my profession for some 40+ yrs in the blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

Bet your black puddings were legendary then!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

Although i thoroughly enjoyed all the games yesterday one game does not, create a brilliant team ( France) who still lost by 20 pts. The idea of the players taking charge and making a statement is fine but this is by no means the first or second time that it has happened.

Not sure when it happened before. What game? I've never seen them turn up for a game under Saint-Andre. That was the first time.

PSA is still there and it is he who is the selectioner until after the WC, so how is this going to change anything. Although i agree with French Fan's post, he is still clutching at straws if the truth is known.

yes the staff will try and get credit for anything positive. They're the ones holding to the job they should have resigned from a long time ago, they've done nothing to deserve the players trust and they don't have their trust.

The very fact that PSA is still in charge does mean that come the WC there will be no change and even England will go back to their normal game.

PSA is no longer in charge. Blanco is.

I'm afraid this was a one off situation where the stats need to win the Championship were laid down so well without anyone knowing it and hence the fantastic day of rugby we all had.5 teams that produced rugby that we see not to often these days this will go down as a great days rugby no more no less.

All i'm saying if they want to do something at their WC they can because we have the players to beat anyone but they need to take control and shut out the staff. They don't need the dinosaurs who claim to coach them, it's the only way for them to have a good WC.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The one good thing about that Eng-Fra game other than its entertainment value is that it signals the end of the Saint-André era. This is the ONE and only game of the last 3.5 yrs Fra have ever turned up.

This is an awful defeat in line with the last 3.5 yrs, but at least the players got their performance.

I've asked many rugby people around me: not one could come up with a performance to remember from the PSA era. Not one game stood out before today's.

The difference btw the 2 sides over the last 4 yrs is poles apart. England have been building patiently with a long term plan, a steady group of players, a young 10 who has the full support (unlike our fly-halves) and players ready to repay the staff for their trust - this is the exact opposite of the Blue Barnum of the last 3.5 yrs.

Why would they finally decide to play when there was nothing to play for? To me there are 3 reasons. One is that the Saint-André Lagisquet shackles are starting to come off. The 2nd is the players took charge of that game. This one didn't come from the staff as Fra have never produced a performance under the current staff. This was the players making a statement, which coincides with the staff's last 6N in charge. Three, the players have started to focus on their WC.

This is players starting to take control. The staff cannot take any credit for today's performance. They will try and we'll get the media BS all week trying to milk the 'positives' for the staff's personal gain. All the changes they made were forced (Plisson, Debatty, Fickou, Mermoz etc) not chosen. Plisson was thrown in at the deep end at Twickenham. They didn't do him a favour. He has been in fine form all season with his club relegating Morney Steyn to the bench. They called him back when they were stuck after Lopez was summoned home by his club. They used him as a filler. Now Tales must be wondering what he is doing in the group. And Lopez's gone back to Clermont.

Under Saint-André it's NEVER been the staff's fault, always the players.

There is a massive generation gap with the playrers. Blanco Lagisquet and Saint-André belong to the amateur era of the 80s. Their rugby language is that of the 80s. They're not on the same wavelength as the professionals they claim to coach.

The staff are mere figureheads. The latest war of words with Clermont this week showed how toothless and useless FFr truly are. Clermont only had to bang their fist on the table to get their way and their player back.

Now les Bleus need Parra and FTD back as their playmakers and to get some leadership back into the group. And lock away Blanco and Lagisquet for the next 6 mths.
If these players have enough cojones they will coach themselves at the WC.

Excellent post.
Totally agree with you FF.

 

[Tony Manx]

@FrenchFan The last time I understand that the players took over was the 2011 RWC when the Biarritz ((again) trio took dressing room control from Lievremont!!

 

[FrenchFan]

There were many natural leaders in that team which is what saved them in the end. yes the Basque mafia was at it again

I've never seen a team so shorn of leaders. In every generation under every manager there's always been leaders. I haven't seen them under the current staff. They're stifled by the environment around them. Once the group is announced and players know they are going to the WC then they will come out because it's bound to happen. They can't suppress that forever.
Blanco is a control freak. He is a toxic individual because he is the one who will try and snuff out player power because he wants to be the 'man in charge' when in reality he is completely out of his depth. They didn't bring him in for la 3e mi-temps. They know PSA has lost the dressing room. And he has his own personal agenda which is the 2016 FFr presidency election. If the team is said to have had a good WC he will take all the credit for it and get elected (he is already vice-president).

I hope for their sake the players ignore them and get on with it.

 

[Shaggy]

Which coaches do you guys think are the way forward for France international then - I have no idea, so I'm interested in getting the perspective from people such as yourselves, that are closer to ground zero.

Not saying that you're wrong about coaches that are ex players from the amateur era FF (I actually believe that you don't have to have played the game internationally to be a great international coach), but those players you mentioned were pretty innovative in their day, which you would hope, would assist them in their coaching duties.

There are also a few good coaches from the amateur days (Wayne Smith, Robbie Deans), so I don't necessarily see that this should discount amateur players from being good coaches.

As a last point, if RWC is the measure (and I don't think it should be, but I'm probably in a minority), you don't have to coach a side that achieves a winning performance consistently. You only have to be able to get to the knock out stages, and then have ability/potential to knock over sides in one off, knock out matches - surely France has proven their ability to do this in recent times.

 

[Tony Manx]

There were many natural leaders in that team which is what saved them in the end. yes the Basque mafia was at it again

I've never seen a team so shorn of leaders. In every generation under every manager there's always been leaders. I haven't seen them under the current staff. They're stifled by the environment around them. Once the group is announced and players know they are going to the WC then they will come out because it's bound to happen. They can't suppress that forever.
Blanco is a control freak. He is a toxic individual because he is the one who will try and snuff out player power because he wants to be the 'man in charge' when in reality he is completely out of his depth. They didn't bring him in for la 3e mi-temps. They know PSA has lost the dressing room. And he has his own personal agenda which is the 2016 FFr presidency election. If the team is said to have had a good WC he will take all the credit for it and get elected (he is already vice-president).

I hope for their sake the players ignore them and get on with it.

Your views about Budda strike a chord with me but two comments:

1 the holy trinity still controlled Biarritz until they were finally shown the door/left due to relegation which, to this interest spectator, they did not do enough to avoid.

2 if he is elected President then maybe, just maybe, he will point a decent CEO to take over the club and not just hand it back to a puppet like Martin!!

The holy trinity were at fault but the one person who is more responsible for BO being in Pro2 is the pillock Blanco.......who,strangely enough, was the reason I started supporting them!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

Your views about Budda strike a chord with me but two comments:

1 the holy trinity still controlled Biarritz until they were finally shown the door/left due to relegation which, to this interest spectator, they did not do enough to avoid.

so that's Harynordoquy Yachvili and Blanco right?

2 if he is elected President then maybe, just maybe, he will point a decent CEO to take over the club and not just hand it back to a puppet like Martin!!

I think he will get the job. Laporte is only an outsider which is a shame as he would bring a much needed sea change if he got it.

The holy trinity were at fault but the one person who is more responsible for BO being in Pro2 is the pillock Blanco.......who,strangely enough, was the reason I started supporting them!!!

Blanco's got a finger in every pie. He is now the national team manager, Biarritz president, FFr vice-president and candidate to the presidency (and business owner). This is what's wrong in French rugby. You've got guys like him who cumulates ***les and have way too much power and not the competence to go with. If you listen to him he thinks he has that god given right to have all that power.

 

[Tony Manx]

so that's Harynordoquy Yachvili and Blanco right?



I think he will get the job. Laporte is only an outsider which is a shame as he would bring a much needed sea change if he got it.



Blanco's got a finger in every pie. He is now the national team manager, Biarritz president, FFr vice-president and candidate to the presidency (and business owner). This is what's wrong in French rugby. You've got guys like him who cumulates ***les and have way too much power and not the competence to go with. If you listen to him he thinks he has that god given right to have all that power.

Third one was Traille!

President in Biarritz means managing director, chief financial officer, chief operations director, director of rugby and general effing controller!!!

In Biarritz he is God and that is why they are doomed!!!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Let's talk theoretically here ...

Who would your France match day 23 be and the coaching staff to go with it?

 

[FrenchFan]

Third one was Traille!

President in Biarritz means managing director, chief financial officer, chief operations director, director of rugby and general effing controller!!!

In Biarritz he is God and that is why they are doomed!!!

ah yes Damien Traille (Try) forgot about him. Yes the Biarrots gang led the anti-Lievremont cabal. How did they expect 3 basques to get on with a catalan?!

But they had some great leaders as well like Servat and Bonnaire. The latter is still very popular and always well spoken of.

 

[Tony Manx]

Hey I agree with you on many things but on that occasion they not only saved the day against the selection and gam tactics of an idiot but against an ex Biarriot!!!!!

 

[corny]

Let's talk theoretically here ...

Who would your France match day 23 be and the coaching staff to go with it?

Seems to me thats the key. There's zero structure in what they're doing at the minute and its compounded by SA's insistence in changing players week in, week out. They lose shape in attack, players are unclear of their jobs and so you get error strewn performances like the one against Italy.

In short, the players have great ability but short of a coherent plan that means little.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Firstly you have to understand how the FFR works before trying to change the team and the way they play......
PSA was the choice by the FFR its all politics and little sport up in Paris.
The FFR is a big band of brothers with massive power they do not want to loose control of anything, hence the bringing in of Blanco, who failed at Biarritz in the end and still not sure whether they will return to the elite ?? He also keeps his finger on the buton for the FFR.
Galthie was the obvious choice but does not have many allies in the FFR.
Ibanez and Pelous are the likely contenders after the departure of PSA, all appreciated in Paris (which is most important) and they will not rock the boat.
The players will never take over for the WC as there are no definate leaders to do so, when Galthie did it in 2003 he had plenty of backing not the case today, but it marked his card for future positions within the FFR.
France have the players they showed plenty of that on Sat. they need a coach not an FFR muppet as PSA is.
I have worked in Paris with the FFR and saw exactly how it works, have worked at 2007 WC and exactly the same, it's very similar to fonctionaires in France!!!!.
Blanco looks set to be the next President so i cant see changes, this is just one of many reasons why the French Club and FFR are more or less at continual loggerheads, there are many many more reasons and examples but don't want to bore you all silly.