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Woldog
Guest
Good.
Q
QLD
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ May 29 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
**** if he goes to the Brumbies.
**** if he goes to the Brumbies.
J
Jer1cho
Guest
Good news. The man follows his roots to play for his country! Awesome.
ATTENTION ALL NH BOYS:
This is what we feel rugby is about...
ATTENTION ALL NH BOYS:
This is what we feel rugby is about...
T
toup
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
:zzz:
Anyone else getting really bored with unnecessary criticism of NH rugby?
Fair play to him for pursuing rugby goals rather than financial ones, but in reference to the point above - surely this highlights that not all players are just after the money, and that you cannot blame NH clubs if SOME SH players are greedy enough to follow the money rather than the honours?
Rocky's current status means he could easily command some big salary expectations in the NH but he is not being swayed by it. See... players DO have a choice in being 'stolen' by the NH after all. Now give up on this pointless trolling.
:zzz:
Anyone else getting really bored with unnecessary criticism of NH rugby?
Fair play to him for pursuing rugby goals rather than financial ones, but in reference to the point above - surely this highlights that not all players are just after the money, and that you cannot blame NH clubs if SOME SH players are greedy enough to follow the money rather than the honours?
Rocky's current status means he could easily command some big salary expectations in the NH but he is not being swayed by it. See... players DO have a choice in being 'stolen' by the NH after all. Now give up on this pointless trolling.
J
Jer1cho
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (toup @ May 29 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
How did i criticize NH rugby? lol. Read the post again. This is what i was trying to say in that other thread. Just because the NH has lots of money, doesn't mean the rugby there is bad. I think they play awesome rugby. I was just saying that we hate it when our players leave for money rather than stay for the love of their country/club. It's got sweet f*** all to do with the quality of rugby up there. It has to do with the player looking out for himself financially. Heck, i would go too if i was offered 4 times what i was getting here. Still though, it will make fans unhappy, and if they want to ***** about it, then let them.
How on earth did i blame NH clubs for anything? lol. Talk about jumping to conclusions...
As for the trolling comment, grow up, and don't jump to unnecessary conclusions because you interpreted the post wrong.
How did i criticize NH rugby? lol. Read the post again. This is what i was trying to say in that other thread. Just because the NH has lots of money, doesn't mean the rugby there is bad. I think they play awesome rugby. I was just saying that we hate it when our players leave for money rather than stay for the love of their country/club. It's got sweet f*** all to do with the quality of rugby up there. It has to do with the player looking out for himself financially. Heck, i would go too if i was offered 4 times what i was getting here. Still though, it will make fans unhappy, and if they want to ***** about it, then let them.
How on earth did i blame NH clubs for anything? lol. Talk about jumping to conclusions...
As for the trolling comment, grow up, and don't jump to unnecessary conclusions because you interpreted the post wrong.
B
Bullitt
Guest
A
aligmacd123
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
How did i criticize NH rugby? lol. Read the post again. This is what i was trying to say in that other thread. Just because the NH has lots of money, doesn't mean the rugby there is bad. I think they play awesome rugby. I was just saying that we hate it when our players leave for money rather than stay for the love of their country/club. It's got sweet f*** all to do with the quality of rugby up there. It has to do with the player looking out for himself financially. Heck, i would go too if i was offered 4 times what i was getting here. Still though, it will make fans unhappy, and if they want to ***** about it, then let them.
How on earth did i blame NH clubs for anything? lol. Talk about jumping to conclusions...
As for the trolling comment, grow up, and don't jump to unnecessary conclusions because you interpreted the post wrong.
[/b][/quote]
Thanks!!! Whoo!
I think what we, as Northern Hemispherians
, are getting annoyed about is that the whole thing of SH players moving North is getting talked about all the the time. With no disrespect you have to calm down about it. They will probably be back in a year when the realise the aren't in for International contention. A prime example of this is Rocky Elsom. He is a brilliant player who has only stayed here for one season but realises if he wants to play for the Wallabies again he has to go home. I respect the guy, he's made a huge impact and is a great player.
Fair enough you are unhappy but have to drop it sometime and get on with it.
How did i criticize NH rugby? lol. Read the post again. This is what i was trying to say in that other thread. Just because the NH has lots of money, doesn't mean the rugby there is bad. I think they play awesome rugby. I was just saying that we hate it when our players leave for money rather than stay for the love of their country/club. It's got sweet f*** all to do with the quality of rugby up there. It has to do with the player looking out for himself financially. Heck, i would go too if i was offered 4 times what i was getting here. Still though, it will make fans unhappy, and if they want to ***** about it, then let them.
How on earth did i blame NH clubs for anything? lol. Talk about jumping to conclusions...
As for the trolling comment, grow up, and don't jump to unnecessary conclusions because you interpreted the post wrong.
[/b][/quote]
Thanks!!! Whoo!
I think what we, as Northern Hemispherians
, are getting annoyed about is that the whole thing of SH players moving North is getting talked about all the the time. With no disrespect you have to calm down about it. They will probably be back in a year when the realise the aren't in for International contention. A prime example of this is Rocky Elsom. He is a brilliant player who has only stayed here for one season but realises if he wants to play for the Wallabies again he has to go home. I respect the guy, he's made a huge impact and is a great player.Fair enough you are unhappy but have to drop it sometime and get on with it.
J
Jer1cho
Guest
lol, i honestly don't care. Our best players stay, and one or two going away is not that bad. It's a huge issue in NZ and Aus, as they have limited talent... But in SA, we can pretty much make up a second international team and still be one of the best in the world. I'm just saying, i don't care.
A
aligmacd123
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Just remember Scotland nearly beat your first string then had a crap Six Nations...hahaha typical...
Yeah I wasnt having a go...im just getting bored of some of the SH members whining on about the players moving...
Just remember Scotland nearly beat your first string
then had a crap Six Nations...hahaha typical...
M
Maccaweeny
Guest
No one was having a dig at NH rugby (yet). It's to be expected though, regardless of what field you're in a change of location can be pretty attractive. I don't see myself working in Australia all my life, and I sure as hell don't blame Rocky for taking advantage of an attractive contract.
So long as we continue to restrict Wallaby selections to players who have ARU contracts, I see no problem in guys like Rocky taking a season or two overseas. It provides an opportunity for new players to step up, and also gives these guys experience in different styles of play. Experience they can bring home.
This is the exact reason why most armed forces have exchange programs with officers, by experiencing how people do things differently, you can learn, adapt and make yourself stronger. I'm glad he's coming home, but certainly wouldn't blame him for sizing up another trip to Leinster.
So long as we continue to restrict Wallaby selections to players who have ARU contracts, I see no problem in guys like Rocky taking a season or two overseas. It provides an opportunity for new players to step up, and also gives these guys experience in different styles of play. Experience they can bring home.
This is the exact reason why most armed forces have exchange programs with officers, by experiencing how people do things differently, you can learn, adapt and make yourself stronger. I'm glad he's coming home, but certainly wouldn't blame him for sizing up another trip to Leinster.
T
toup
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
On the subject of misinterpreting posts, did I say you were criticising the quality of rugby? No, you've repeatedly criticized our clubs (and therefore the ACTIONS of NH rugby) for 'stealing your players' just for money, yet...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Now you acknowledge the players have complete free choice. Interesting.
I'll ignore the fact that you told me to grow up despite actually typing 'lol' within a post, and suggest that we stop dragging this debate back into any thread where players of a professional sport change clubs for money. How very dare they. I understand and respect your point of view and am entitled to voice mine - there's no need for personal insults.
On the subject of misinterpreting posts, did I say you were criticising the quality of rugby? No, you've repeatedly criticized our clubs (and therefore the ACTIONS of NH rugby) for 'stealing your players' just for money, yet...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ May 29 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Now you acknowledge the players have complete free choice. Interesting.
I'll ignore the fact that you told me to grow up despite actually typing 'lol' within a post, and suggest that we stop dragging this debate back into any thread where players of a professional sport change clubs for money. How very dare they. I understand and respect your point of view and am entitled to voice mine - there's no need for personal insults.
A
aligmacd123
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Maccaweeny @ May 29 2009, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
Yes thats what i was thinking. Going different places and playing different style helps you personally and your international team because you know a bit more about how they play by actually playing that way. This means you can learn to counter or better it.
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
J
Jer1cho
Guest
I'm over it... It's too much of a mission to type a long reply and just have someone else try to "better" it. Don't care anymore. Pointless to have an argument that's not face to face. But yeah for the record,
I did not once say anyone was 'stealing' our players. Someone else said that. I was merely suggesting that we don't have to like the situation. . . I also did not criticize NH rugby (in whatever way you meant). I just thought it was **** of you to have a go at me when i was just pulling some chains. I love rugby AS A WHOLE, and don't give a crap what happens where. Fact is, we are a proud rugby country, and look at it differently to others, and that's all that matters to me.
I did not once say anyone was 'stealing' our players. Someone else said that. I was merely suggesting that we don't have to like the situation. . . I also did not criticize NH rugby (in whatever way you meant). I just thought it was **** of you to have a go at me when i was just pulling some chains. I love rugby AS A WHOLE, and don't give a crap what happens where. Fact is, we are a proud rugby country, and look at it differently to others, and that's all that matters to me.
S
Steve-o
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alexmac @ May 29 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
[/b][/quote]
That's real cute.
Look I dislike whining much as any other person. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't change anything, it does nothing besides making people annoyed with each other.
OK.
So some are whining and some are expressing a genuine concern for THEIR provincial rugby teams standard. If a player plays for the Natal Sharks he is representing me and the rest of the rugby loving people of Natal. We want our team and players to be strong. Sport is competitive. For sport to stay relevant you must be able to compete. When players are leaving annually our sporting and competitive spirit is being taken away as well.
I've learnt to accept the reality of the situation. SA is still a 3rd world country and these players have short careers so they follow the money more often than not, but it still sucks big time nonetheless.
I see in your sig you have Godman (I think its him). How would you honestly feel if he got a big contract from a Japanese club and off he went. After all that money from the academy and your clubs time spent on him only to see him go off to a foreign country. Would you say he's on 'some awesome spy trip'. I think not! And this is happening every year. After the Lions tour and the Tri Nations players like Jean De Villiers, Frans Steyn, Brian Habana and Jacque Fourie are expected to leave SA with like 5 offers each to choose from.
Now lets take it further. Imagine he was a bit younger, say 22, was born in Edinburgh and he came through the academy and Scotlands youth systems, and had been knocking on the door for Scotland selection for 2 season, only to go to Japan for a big contract and join their Japan A team effectively ruling him out for Scottish selection ever. That would suck hey? Well that's exactly what is happening with Brad Barritt when joined the England Saxons.
Again I agree some people are whining and constantly 'picking fights' so to say, but a little understanding would be appreciated.
Secret spy trip my ass, boet.
Yes thats what i was thinking. Going different places and playing different style helps you personally and your international team because you know a bit more about how they play by actually playing that way. This means you can learn to counter or better it.
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
[/b][/quote]
That's real cute.
Look I dislike whining much as any other person. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't change anything, it does nothing besides making people annoyed with each other.
OK.
So some are whining and some are expressing a genuine concern for THEIR provincial rugby teams standard. If a player plays for the Natal Sharks he is representing me and the rest of the rugby loving people of Natal. We want our team and players to be strong. Sport is competitive. For sport to stay relevant you must be able to compete. When players are leaving annually our sporting and competitive spirit is being taken away as well.
I've learnt to accept the reality of the situation. SA is still a 3rd world country and these players have short careers so they follow the money more often than not, but it still sucks big time nonetheless.
I see in your sig you have Godman (I think its him). How would you honestly feel if he got a big contract from a Japanese club and off he went. After all that money from the academy and your clubs time spent on him only to see him go off to a foreign country. Would you say he's on 'some awesome spy trip'. I think not! And this is happening every year. After the Lions tour and the Tri Nations players like Jean De Villiers, Frans Steyn, Brian Habana and Jacque Fourie are expected to leave SA with like 5 offers each to choose from.
Now lets take it further. Imagine he was a bit younger, say 22, was born in Edinburgh and he came through the academy and Scotlands youth systems, and had been knocking on the door for Scotland selection for 2 season, only to go to Japan for a big contract and join their Japan A team effectively ruling him out for Scottish selection ever. That would suck hey? Well that's exactly what is happening with Brad Barritt when joined the England Saxons.
Again I agree some people are whining and constantly 'picking fights' so to say, but a little understanding would be appreciated.
Secret spy trip my ass, boet.
A
aligmacd123
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ May 29 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
[/b][/quote]
That's real cute.
Look I dislike whining much as any other person. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't change anything, it does nothing besides making people annoyed with each other.
OK.
So some are whining and some are expressing a genuine concern for THEIR provincial rugby teams standard. If a player plays for the Natal Sharks he is representing me and the rest of the rugby loving people of Natal. We want our team and players to be strong. Sport is competitive. For sport to stay relevant you must be able to compete. When players are leaving annually our sporting and competitive spirit is being taken away as well.
I've learnt to accept the reality of the situation. SA is still a 3rd world country and these players have short careers so they follow the money more often than not, but it still sucks big time nonetheless.
I see in your sig you have Godman (I think its him). How would you honestly feel if he got a big contract from a Japanese club and off he went. After all that money from the academy and your clubs time spent on him only to see him go off to a foreign country. Would you say he's on 'some awesome spy trip'. It think not! And this is happening every year. After the Lions tour and the Tri Nations players like Jean De Villiers, Frans Steyn, Brian Habana and Jacque Fourie are expected to leave SA with like 5 offers each to choose from.
Now lets take it further. Imagine he was a bit younger, say 22, was born in Edinburgh and he came through the academy and Scotlands youth systems, and had been knocking on the door for Scotland selection for 2 season, only to go to Japan for a big contract and join their Japan A team effectively ruling him out for Scottish selection ever. That would suck hey? Well that's exactly what is happening with Brad Barritt when joined the England Saxons.
Again I agree some people are whining and constantly 'picking fights' so to say, but a little understanding would be appreciated.
Secret spy trip my ass, boet.
[/b][/quote]
Haha
Its not Godman, its Thom and Max Evans and John Barclay. But I get get your point none the less. I would be extremely ****** if they went to Japan or somewhere like that because they are good players and they deserve their chance on the international stage.
I think, for once, the SRU are ahead of everyone else because they have tied down two of the most exciting Scottish players in big money contracts (relative to the SRU, somewhere in the region of £250k a year) so that they will play in Scotland till after the World Cup in 2011.
Obviously the respective countries unions does their best to persuade them to stay but they just haven't acted quick enough by not signing their players up before foreign offers come in.
Yes thats what i was thinking. Going different places and playing different style helps you personally and your international team because you know a bit more about how they play by actually playing that way. This means you can learn to counter or better it.
So rather than thinking your players are being stolen, they are actually going on a high paid spying trip.
[/b][/quote]
That's real cute.
Look I dislike whining much as any other person. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't change anything, it does nothing besides making people annoyed with each other.
OK.
So some are whining and some are expressing a genuine concern for THEIR provincial rugby teams standard. If a player plays for the Natal Sharks he is representing me and the rest of the rugby loving people of Natal. We want our team and players to be strong. Sport is competitive. For sport to stay relevant you must be able to compete. When players are leaving annually our sporting and competitive spirit is being taken away as well.
I've learnt to accept the reality of the situation. SA is still a 3rd world country and these players have short careers so they follow the money more often than not, but it still sucks big time nonetheless.
I see in your sig you have Godman (I think its him). How would you honestly feel if he got a big contract from a Japanese club and off he went. After all that money from the academy and your clubs time spent on him only to see him go off to a foreign country. Would you say he's on 'some awesome spy trip'. It think not! And this is happening every year. After the Lions tour and the Tri Nations players like Jean De Villiers, Frans Steyn, Brian Habana and Jacque Fourie are expected to leave SA with like 5 offers each to choose from.
Now lets take it further. Imagine he was a bit younger, say 22, was born in Edinburgh and he came through the academy and Scotlands youth systems, and had been knocking on the door for Scotland selection for 2 season, only to go to Japan for a big contract and join their Japan A team effectively ruling him out for Scottish selection ever. That would suck hey? Well that's exactly what is happening with Brad Barritt when joined the England Saxons.
Again I agree some people are whining and constantly 'picking fights' so to say, but a little understanding would be appreciated.
Secret spy trip my ass, boet.
[/b][/quote]
Haha
Its not Godman, its Thom and Max Evans and John Barclay. But I get get your point none the less. I would be extremely ****** if they went to Japan or somewhere like that because they are good players and they deserve their chance on the international stage.
I think, for once, the SRU are ahead of everyone else because they have tied down two of the most exciting Scottish players in big money contracts (relative to the SRU, somewhere in the region of £250k a year) so that they will play in Scotland till after the World Cup in 2011.
Obviously the respective countries unions does their best to persuade them to stay but they just haven't acted quick enough by not signing their players up before foreign offers come in.
W
Woldog
Guest
To put it all in perspective, Aus, NZ and SA don't really want NH players.
S
Steve-o
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ May 29 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
:lol:
Not exactly subtle are you?
I disagree though, I'm sure some teams would love to have players like Lee Byrne, Martin Williams and Gethin Jenkins.
They would be ridiculously over priced though and in terms of SH salaries they'd not be worth what they are paid.
:lol:
Not exactly subtle are you?
I disagree though, I'm sure some teams would love to have players like Lee Byrne, Martin Williams and Gethin Jenkins.
They would be ridiculously over priced though and in terms of SH salaries they'd not be worth what they are paid.
W
Woldog
Guest
Australia has always too a degree bred its own players (Dan Vickerman is from South Africa and Daniel Braid is from NZ to point out not all are from Australia) and hasn't had to rely on other countries too much for players, it defeats the purpose of playing rugby if all the teams of today are focused on is money and winning, Rugby isn't about winning it's about enjoying the game. If the teams actually enjoyed the rugby they played they wouldn't need to buy players from other countries as the lure wouldn't be there for them, they would work with what they had and mold a winning team. The problem occurs when a team is having a terrible run so they look to overseas for talent which in turn denies local players the chance of playing for their team
i.e. Say I played Flanker constantly and had been training to get into the Reds for 3 years, finally my chance comes around but woe is me Daniel Braid comes from NZ and takes the spot pushing Higgenbotham into reserves and me into the abyss.
That is the scenario with a lot of NH players who want to play for their local teams but don't have the option cause that bully Chris Latham just took the Fullback position. Rugby needs to go back to its roots where the game was played for enjoyment and mateship rather than players who are "thirsty for the green so bad they're dehydrating."
This isn't a dig at NH rugby it's a dig at rugby in general it's just the example is more common in NH and also SH places like Japan.
i.e. Say I played Flanker constantly and had been training to get into the Reds for 3 years, finally my chance comes around but woe is me Daniel Braid comes from NZ and takes the spot pushing Higgenbotham into reserves and me into the abyss.
That is the scenario with a lot of NH players who want to play for their local teams but don't have the option cause that bully Chris Latham just took the Fullback position. Rugby needs to go back to its roots where the game was played for enjoyment and mateship rather than players who are "thirsty for the green so bad they're dehydrating."
This isn't a dig at NH rugby it's a dig at rugby in general it's just the example is more common in NH and also SH places like Japan.
S
snoopy snoopy dog dog
Guest
I'll be sad to see Elsom leave since he was immense for Leinster. It wouldn't surprise me if he wound up captaining a potential new Melbourne franchise with Michael Cheika as head coach in 2011.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ May 29 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
It's what I see happening in rugby over the next decade. Top players will follow the money trail in greater numbers and the NZRU and ARU will be forced to relax their criteria for playing for their countries (or else they'll field inadequate sides). We're already seeing a slight relaxation of those criteria whereby if a player plays for a foreign based team in the Super 14 he won't be ruled out of contention for national team selection (John O'Neill has said this).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ May 29 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ May 29 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I'll chime in if I may. In Ireland we have the same problem in soccer. Every time a top 14 or 15 year old emerges, he's picked up by (gererally) an English club and brought through their academy. The result is a far inferior domestic league and most people in this country supporting English clubs. Likewise the top players from around the planet make their way to the top teams in Europe because that's where the money is.
It's what I see happening in rugby over the next decade. Top players will follow the money trail in greater numbers and the NZRU and ARU will be forced to relax their criteria for playing for their countries (or else they'll field inadequate sides). We're already seeing a slight relaxation of those criteria whereby if a player plays for a foreign based team in the Super 14 he won't be ruled out of contention for national team selection (John O'Neill has said this).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ May 29 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
That's a very valid point and makes a mockery of the IRBs eligibility rules. In my opinion rugby should adopt a policy more in keeping with that of FIFA whereby a player is only eligible to play for a given country via parentage, grandparentage or having a passport. I dislike the current three year residency rule intensely but while it's in place I don't begrudge teams taking advantage of it.
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