Eddie Jones ‘Consultant’ Role

[TRF_Olyy]

I've said it once and undoubtedly this won't be the last time, if the shoe was on the other foot I'm pretty sure that your normally perfect shape may seem slightly skewed .

Considering Gatland himself viewed England training sessions and had full access to England players before/during the lions tour - no, not really.


I really don't get what's the big deal here - EJ sent spies into the Wales camp from a foreign club he's a casual consultant for?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"But there could now be concerns among the Wales hierarchy that information gathered could potentially be used against them at the World Cup later this year."
If that is their concern then why the **** let any teams outside Wales train with you in a RWC year LOL.

And why would Wales give their world cup game plan to a visiting side?
This is nothing more than WOL looking to stir up drama from the anti-England brigade

 

[bushytop]

Considering Gatland himself viewed England training sessions and had full access to England players before/during the lions tour - no, not really.


I really don't get what's the big deal here - EJ sent spies into the Wales camp from a foreign club he's a casual consultant for?

What, because a subject that involves the head coach of the number 4 test Rugby team in the world and the number 2 test team in the world is being discussed on a forum that is called 'The Rugby Forum' that makes it a big deal does it? Imho no, the posters discussing this subject are just doing what this forum was created for, discussing subjects involving rugby.

Does 'What Film have you just seen?' or 'MMA/UFC Thread' constitute big deals to you?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jeeze.

No one said it shouldn't be discussed, at all or even close to that. I'm just saying I don't think this story is a big deal at all.
Club that Jones has casual association with trains with Wales - if the Wales management are "furious" and the fans of either England or Wales are "outraged" then it's been blown out of all proportion.

 

[bushytop]

Jeeze.

No one said it shouldn't be discussed, at all or even close to that. I'm just saying I don't think this story is a big deal at all.
Club that Jones has casual association with trains with Wales - if the Wales management are "furious" and the fans of either England or Wales are "outraged" then it's been blown out of all proportion.

And that's fine, I'd agree with you that as things stand (unless further 'incriminating' facts are brought to light) it isn't a particularly big deal... but just because it's being discussed doesn't mean we think it's a bid deal neither.

Rather than discuss it though 'some' of the English posters (apart from @Every Time Ref & @Old Hooker) seem happy to sweep it under the carpet. All I'm saying is, that coincidence 'may' have something to do with subconscious rose-tinted glasses... just saying. And by the same token, 'maybe' the fact I'm discussing it has a little to do with the daffodil-tints I so catchingly sport .

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think it's idiotic to assume there is definitely something untoward going on, and (in a move that shocks no one) WOL have definitely thrown a **** ton of innuendo in alongside very few tangible details in order to rile up their base. No doubt there. And as a result there'll be some morons on the Welsh side (and probably other countries, because, y'know, it's the English...) spitting feathers and leaping to conclusions about what might well be an innocuous set of circumstances. And I really understand getting defensive because we English get an extraordinary amount of that crap from those sources.

But I also agree with bushytop that it is not reasonable to dismiss this as "there is absolutely nothing in this whatsoever". There could be. It's worth a conversation. It's reasonable to question what EJ's connection to the SGs is, and why they didn't disclose it. It looks potentially shady, and questions should be asked.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Whilst it sounds dodgy, I'm struggling to see realistically what sort of information of any sort of value could have been gained. Are the Welsh side seriously claiming that they rolled out their world cup tactics to some random visiting club side as part of a showcase of T1 training techniques? Somehow I doubt they showed the club side anything England haven't already seen multiple times. Even when Wales beat us in the 6N, it wasn't due to pulling out some sudden new tactic. If anything England were the ones that pulled out new tactics this year, with the side we saw this year playing very differently to the one last year. Wales have not been great innovators under Gatland. They play hard and accurately but I don't think much of Wales gameplan is a particularly surprise to any team.

 

[bushytop]

Whilst it sounds dodgy, I'm struggling to see realistically what sort of information of any sort of value could have been gained. Are the Welsh side seriously claiming that they rolled out their world cup tactics to some random visiting club side as part of a showcase of T1 training techniques? Somehow I doubt they showed the club side anything England haven't already seen multiple times. Even when Wales beat us in the 6N, it wasn't due to pulling out some sudden new tactic. If anything England were the ones that pulled out new tactics this year, with the side we saw this year playing very differently to the one last year. Wales have not been great innovators under Gatland. They play hard and accurately but I don't think much of Wales gameplan is a particularly surprise to any team.

What about our strength and conditioning, which I'd argue is as good as it gets? While England's, well they've dropped off in the second half of at least 50% of the games they played last season. Maybe (if this was one big conspiracy, which I'm not saying it is... yet, without further evidence) that would the place to start with 'what info would England have possibly been after... from Way-yuls of all places?'

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What about our strength and conditioning, which I'd argue is as good as it gets?

Your strength and conditioning coach was England's for like a decade, and was also lions multiple times - I doubt he has some super secret that no one knows about.

I don't think our conditioning issues are down to our S&C sessions as much as they're down to club vs country committments. We can look like the fittest side in the world and also like knackered grannies in the same season

 

[bushytop]

Your strength and conditioning coach was England's for like a decade, and was also lions multiple times - I doubt he has some super secret that no one knows about.

I don't think our conditioning issues are down to our S&C sessions as much as they're down to club vs country committments. We can look like the fittest side in the world and also like knackered grannies in the same season

It's a good argument, I was just pointing out that it doesn't have to be our attack that could have been something to gain advantage over... if indeed there was anything nefarious going on, which of course there was not .

How about something that starts with d and ends with fence?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wales defence isn't something special either though, It's like most league based defences.
It's just executed to a high standard.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What about our strength and conditioning, which I'd argue is as good as it gets? While England's, well they've dropped off in the second half of at least 50% of the games they played last season. Maybe (if this was one big conspiracy, which I'm not saying it is... yet, without further evidence) that would the place to start with 'what info would England have possibly been after... from Way-yuls of all places?'

Wales have been going on about their strength and conditioning since 2013. In 2016 & 2017 we were one of the strongest finishing teams in the world, nearly always scoring in the last 10 minutes. English players also tend to put in a LOT more hours than the Welsh players do, especially in Lions years. In years where the English players have actually had some rest, they have looked much fitter. As far as I'm aware your conditioning hasn't changed much in the last few years and again I don't think your training methods are particularly secret. If anything what England needs to a good sports psychologist rather than anything relating to skills or fitness.

Wales aren't a side that are doing anything particularly innovative in any areas, they are just learning to keep the penalty count down and keep the accuracy high.

 

[Rinkadink]

I think England suffer from psychological issues on the pitch rather than fitness ones (aside from when Eddie was flogging everyone to near-death), Scotland game says it all.

On topic the affiliation should definitely be looked into, no harm in that aside from the time/expense which shouldn't be significant for governing bodies.

 

[bushytop]

Wales have been going on about their strength and conditioning since 2013. In 2016 & 2017 we were one of the strongest finishing teams in the world, nearly always scoring in the last 10 minutes. English players also tend to put in a LOT more hours than the Welsh players do, especially in Lions years. In years where the English players have actually had some rest, they have looked much fitter. As far as I'm aware your conditioning hasn't changed much in the last few years and again I don't think your training methods are particularly secret. If anything what England needs to a good sports psychologist rather than anything relating to skills or fitness.

Wales aren't a side that are doing anything particularly innovative in any areas, they are just learning to keep the penalty count down and keep the accuracy high.

Well the Sungoliaths really picked the wrong international test team to go and spend time with when they could have applied to the plethora which are so innovative. I'd suggest that 'whomever' it is that is advising the Sungoliaths (no idea who ) on such stupifying decision-making should be sacked for gross incompetence !

 

[Scotty]

EJ is a consultant, he has only done wrong if he has asked for them to find him information about wales or anything like that. No evidence or proof that that has happened.

This shifts the blame to sungoliaths(love that name) for not disclosing it as it is important.

After that it shifts to Wales not as blame but simply as a something that should have been checked, as well as this not being a new role for EJ apparently.

 

[bushytop]

EJ is a consultant, he has only done wrong if he has asked for them to find him information about wales or anything like that. No evidence or proof that that has happened.

This shifts the blame to sungoliaths(love that name) for not disclosing it as it is important.

After that it shifts to Wales not as blame but simply as a something that should have been checked, as well as this not being a new role for EJ apparently.

Cheers for that @scotty507, perhaps you could now turn your hand to forging World peace .

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well the Sungoliaths really picked the wrong international test team to go and spend time with when they could have applied to the plethora which are so innovative. I'd suggest that 'whomever' it is that is advising the Sungoliaths (no idea who ) on such stupifying decision-making should be sacked for gross incompetence !

They aren't looking for great innovation though are they? Generally the prime rule is nail down the basics and so in that regard, Wales and Ireland are 2 sides to go to. You appear to be intentionally dense about this...

 

[bushytop]

They aren't looking for great innovation though are they? Generally the prime rule is nail down the basics and so in that regard, Wales and Ireland are 2 sides to go to. You appear to be intentionally dense about this...

Or, I was just taking the pi$$... but that probably doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Which Tyler]

This is nothing more than WOL looking to stir up drama from the anti-England brigade

Successfully, it would appear.
Though it's not exactly hard. Simply saying "hello" seems to work pretty well at times.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Or, I was just taking the pi$$... but that probably doesn't fit your narrative.

And what narrative is that? That it's a non-story because Wales wouldn't reveal anything of any importance to the club side and the things they did reveal would already be known by England?