Does the New Zealand haka effect its onlookers

[C A Iversen]

Just wait till the french bring out skirts and the kan-kan dance.

 

[shazbooger]

Why is it only the All blacks haka come under scrutiny when other nations use a haka as well? [/b]

This topic is about the Haka, hence the discussion about the Haka. I believe the arguements are relevent for all the war dances though.

As your own country man said.

1. We demand to have the last say prior to the start of the match. Fine, but in someone else's country? Where is their home advantage they deserve?

2. Unlike 99% of other area's of the world, we put on a cultural war dance prior to competing, then ask, NO, expect, NO, Demand, YES, that our opposition watch it all and not move, or else.

3. We use tradition to justify unfairness over the issue.[/b]

These are all valid point which no other NZ fans want to address. For gods sake lads focus on the topic. Your all to busy defending New Zealand, quoting tradition, and pointing the fingers at the Pacific Islanders, that very few of you are actually addressing the key questions which are not actually anti-New Zealand.

This is just a fairly open discussion about whether 1) The Haka gives the AB's an unfair advantage, and 2) Whether another country should be given the right to reply.

We all know and acknowledge that New Zealand are consistently the best rugby team on the planet. We all enjoy watching them and we all enjoy watching the Haka. I dont think that is up for debate here. I personally think it should not be up to New Zealand to allow a team the right to reply (as it is at the moment). For the Welsh situation, the WRU stood their ground and insisted they be given a right to reply, NZ refused. Why? Why did they refuse?

 

[C A Iversen]

Clap, clap!!!!! 100% of what I'm trying to say. I dare the answers to deal SPECIFICALLY with your question!!!!

The blind patriotism of America, lives in a rugby country too.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

I'm not New Zealander.

[/b]

Apologies then but you take my point. It forces the other team to stand there, they HAVE to act subordinately, it's a big thing psychologically. If the English wanted to take afternoon tea and the opposition had to stand there and wait timidly for us to finish it would have the same effect.

 

[C A Iversen]

Notice the dry up in responses. It'll be a diversion from the issues addressed when there is one.

I think it's time to reiterate. I love the Haka, but we only rule our own shores!!!!

We would not stand being ruled from afar. Yet we say no response after the haka. No crowd anthem, or we haka in the dressing room. True story.

Why not just haka when we are overseas and let the home nation have the last say if it doesn't matter (as NZ'ers are saying). Then all will be cool all round. Happy times.

If it is the NH being whiners then this is all it would take to shut them up for good..........but could we do it?

 

[ryushenkitano]

The haka is tradition, like anthem are for other nations.

 

[C A Iversen]

So..... whats the point? We all agree on that. Who gets to decide the program though?

 

[fcukernaut]

The Haka needs to be on the program at every opportunity in world rugby. Sure it may be watered down and less effective (thank you bronze medal winning, jerkoff swimmers), but the fact is it's a sure fire selling tool. Guess what the only rugby ad on North American TV is? It's the adidas comercial about the haka (that is of course if you ignore Jonah's ad). The haka has a special place in rugby, and I think we all agree on that.



Now, as for a response the Australians have always done it their own way. Usually this invovles some, B-list Australia celebrity with some stupid looking hat or an oversized inflatable kangaroo, come out and sing a song about a person drowning theirself. I guess that sort of works so, why not have Wales sing bread of heavan during or after the haka and Engalnd can sing their song about a chariot.

This is a straight case of rights. In our country I would defend to the death that we do the Haka when and where we like, but come on, do we own England, Wales, France etc?[/b]

Well according to recent results, we do...

 

[I Bleed Black]

This is just a fairly open discussion about whether 1) The Haka gives the AB's an unfair advantage, and 2) Whether another country should be given the right to reply.

[/b]

Well.... in my opinion......

1) No I don't think it does. Like I said previously after the first few tackles the haka is out of everyones minds. The trouble is other teams think it does give them an advantage. Break it down - one teams jumps around a bit and expels energy, other team conserves energy and stands there. The ABs always have a psychological edge over most countries (except AU and RSA) due to the other team fearing or paying htem too much respect or because of previous encounters or having never beaten them. The HAKA adds to this mystique, but it is not the ABs using this as an advantage, it is the opposition putting themselves at a disadvantage psychologically to begin with.

2) Of course the other country has a right of reply - Like I have always said the ABs have never complained with this. The one time they keep it to themselves in Wales was because of the agreed order being messed with. Had the Welsh simply wanted to come out with their own challenge at the same time as the Abs I am sure this would have been fine. Important to note, if the opposition is to respond, better it come from the actual team - not from some guy singing with a guitar and relying on the fans to sing a song. The Aussies do this, and Im sure the Aussie public think it is a great laugh, and the All Blacks do not appear to take offence, so I view this as other teams being able to respond with out fear of complaint. Just dont muck with the fact the challenges come just before the game.

Once again just my opinion as a humble kiwi living abroad...

 

[Gillou]

If the NZ'ers did'nt make the Haka on Welsh request the question we ask her could be : Why the Welsh did'nt want the AB made the Haka?

Just wait till the french bring out skirts and the kan-kan dance.
[/b]

Arrogant stereotype

 

[Cymro]

If the NZ'ers did'nt make the Haka on Welsh request the question we ask her could be : Why the Welsh did'nt want the AB made the Haka?

<div class='quotemain'>
Just wait till the french bring out skirts and the kan-kan dance.
[/b]

Arrogant stereotype [/b][/quote]

Someone who does not know how to take a joke or understnad the situation!

1. I can't understand how you sir are saying that Wales did not want the Haka, I was in that crowd of 74,000 and I know for a fact that I wanted to see it and so did everyone else, and I can also say that the WRU DID and I repeat DID want the haka done! END OF BLOODY STORY!

2. The WRU asked could the Haka be given a response to on the field which the All Blacks did not want that and therefore they preformed it in the changing room. (I apologise to all NZ for having to say that!)

3. The Can-Can is not a sterotype as I mentioned that the Irish should do a river dance and the Scots and Welsh come out and do some Celtic dance with their kilts on! Just take a joke buddy for god sake!

 

[Gillou]

1. I can't understand how you sir are saying that Wales did not want the Haka, I was in that crowd of 74,000 and I know for a fact that I wanted to see it and so did everyone else, and I can also say that the WRU DID and I repeat DID want the haka done! END OF BLOODY STORY!

2. The WRU asked could the Haka be given a response to on the field which the All Blacks did not want that and therefore they preformed it in the changing room. (I apologise to all NZ for having to say that!)

3. The Can-Can is not a sterotype as I mentioned that the Irish should do a river dance and the Scots and Welsh come out and do some Celtic dance with their kilts on! Just take a joke buddy for god sake!
[/b]

1 & 2. Perhaps I did not understand

The point is that the Welsh were at home and wanted to reply to the Haka! I dont see anything wrong with that, I love the Haka and have nothing against it but if the home nation who are hosting the All Blacks want to reply then thye should be allowed!
[/b]

For the Welsh situation, the WRU stood their ground and insisted they be given a right to reply, NZ refused. Why? Why did they refuse?
[/b]

In fact, I have nothing against the Haka

3 . I know you don't talk about Can-Can I replied to a CA Iversen post, I dunno why it was added in then same post.
I think it could be nice if every team have a show, but when you talk about Wales, and Ireland he is serious, and for France he turned the point with derision.
I know it was humourous, but it's a little bit easy, isnt it?

 

[RC]

1. I can't understand how you sir are saying that Wales did not want the Haka, I was in that crowd of 74,000 and I know for a fact that I wanted to see it and so did everyone else, and I can also say that the WRU DID and I repeat DID want the haka done! END OF BLOODY STORY!
[/b]

I was there as well and trust me, when the match kicked off 74,000 people booed for 5 minutes.
Not one person in the crowd got into the game until at least a few minutes after the haka was shown being performed in the changing...whereby thousands continued to boo and talk mongst one another for a few minutes.
Quite a remarkable scene actually. When so many people paid to see the game the actual match was going on in front of them and everyone was looking at the screen and then talking to one another saying, "What the f***?!" WHen all the Welsh and NZ players might as well have been playing on their own.

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotemain'>

1. I can't understand how you sir are saying that Wales did not want the Haka, I was in that crowd of 74,000 and I know for a fact that I wanted to see it and so did everyone else, and I can also say that the WRU DID and I repeat DID want the haka done! END OF BLOODY STORY!

2. The WRU asked could the Haka be given a response to on the field which the All Blacks did not want that and therefore they preformed it in the changing room. (I apologise to all NZ for having to say that!)

3. The Can-Can is not a sterotype as I mentioned that the Irish should do a river dance and the Scots and Welsh come out and do some Celtic dance with their kilts on! Just take a joke buddy for god sake!
[/b]

1 & 2. Perhaps I did not understand

The point is that the Welsh were at home and wanted to reply to the Haka! I dont see anything wrong with that, I love the Haka and have nothing against it but if the home nation who are hosting the All Blacks want to reply then thye should be allowed!
[/b]

For the Welsh situation, the WRU stood their ground and insisted they be given a right to reply, NZ refused. Why? Why did they refuse?
[/b]

In fact, I have nothing against the Haka

3 . I know you don't talk about Can-Can I replied to a CA Iversen post, I dunno why it was added in then same post.
I think it could be nice if every team have a show, but when you talk about Wales, and Ireland he is serious, and for France he turned the point with derision.
I know it was humourous, but it's a little bit easy, isnt it?
[/b][/quote]

Hi Gillou. Sorry about the can-can joke (I couldn't even spell it right). It was in fact in reference to Cymro's comments about Scottish and Irish customs.

I actually feel that the french have a fantastically interesting culture, I just couldn't think of another dance than the can-can. T'was not meant to be stereotypical.

I'm not like that at all. If I wanted to be stereotypical about France I would've suggested that your players wear a navy-blue and white hooped, long sleeved jersey with a beret and moustache, donning long-ringed garlic cloves draped over their necks and ride out onto the field, doing a lap of the field at the start of the match on bicycles with wine and french sticks in the front hamper. These could be thrown to the adoring crowd. Then as a final piece de resisitance the team could grab their accordians from the back carrier of the bike and play a lovely Edith Piaf number about the stomping of grapes.

Although I'm not like that and would never stoop to that. Not even on Bastille day.

 

[ikvat]

It would be like a christmas father without beard. Less interesting.

 

[Klarkash-ton]

No one has mentioned that the Haka is a challenge to your opponents. It honours your opponents, and how they take up the challenge is important. The French faced it correctly I feel.

Anyway, I've faced quite a few Haka's and the effect has varied from laughable (typical schools Haka) to bloodcurdling. The best and worst was Kaitoke High and Medium Security Prison while playing League for Massey Uni, where I guess they couldn't settle on their tribal representation so they did three. After the first I was convinced I was going to die, after the third I was just bored.

 

[Harlequins4Evr]

Personally I think it is very nice seeing the opposing team do cultural/traditional things like that (also adds to he game and spices it up a bit) but the part where they cut their throats and threat the opposiion must make the opponents feel very agitated and nervous before the game has even started. But as some others said previously - It is fogoten after the first few tackles.