Does the New Zealand haka effect its onlookers

[woosaah]

yeah the haka is there for a reply. the aussies reply back with waltzing matilda (though its a very crap version)

They also leave it til the last minute to take of their track suits after the haka to try defuse the situation.

IMO i like hte haka, it should stay. If you dont like it then pft thats your fault.

Why reply back with the natinal anthem? Both teams get to do that anyway. If you have a cultrue like Maori, and you have a "war dance" then by all means reply back with it. The Pacific Island nations do, if you want to get rid of the all blacks haka, you have to get rid of them all.

 

[diehardkiwi07]

Why is it only the All blacks haka come under scrutiny when other nations use a haka as well?

Any1 care to explain that?

 

[I Bleed Black]

You know what?

If NZ lost more regularly, there would be no problem with the Haka.

The whole reason this debate exists is because some people/nations dont work hard enough on the field to beat the ABs, then get frustrated and look for something to blame.

You could say that it gives the ABs a five minute advantage at the start of a game, but after a few tackles, no-one is thinking about the Haka anymore - Its rugby in the field of play that decides the game!

If anything the Haka has done a lot to promote rugby. How many people in countries that dont play rugby, happen to know about a certain team of players that perform a fantastic war dance before they play... The Haka is part of the All Blacks, and the All Blacks are part of world rugby.

Perhaps if NZ offered to give the oppostion a free penalty in front of the sticks, at the start of the game, this would negate the perceived advantage???

 

[Flyin Ryan]

<div class='quotemain'> The WRU did not remove the Haka from the field [/b]

Sorry, I knew whose responsibility it was, it was just lazy English. Your right to clarify it though.

I've never seen rugby without it so why change it?? [/b]

Well you could also ask, why do the New Zealanders change it? The tradition itself has changed to a huge degree so the Haka of today is practically unrecognisable to the one of 20 years ago.

To be honest, i dont think many people care too much either way, but if there is a chance it could give a team an advantage it shouldnt be allowed ................ or ................... it should be done before the Anthems, not before kick-off.[/b][/quote]



If a group of professional rugby players that are the best their country has to offer are intimidated by a bunch of Kiwis moving their arms and chanting, than they are not good enough and should never be representing their country to start with.



I'd tell said men to stop being a bunch of p*ssies and just get on with it. With that type of attitude they have lost the game before it even started if they think the Haka gives New Zealand an advantage.

 

[diehardkiwi07]

why is the pacific Islanders allowed to do 1 and know 1 kicks up a stink about them? Is it because people are looking for some reason to pick on the All Blacks

 

[Zimboy]

I think the haka has lost its impact at the moment. I've watched all the All Blacks games this year and the Haka seems a bit diluted. I don't doubt that the team still has passion for it but its not as fierce as a few years back (eyes rolling, tongues extended etc...). As I result of this i'd say Tonga has the more intimidating war dance with the direct pointing to players, yet nobody is complaining about them. People should just grow a pair.

As a proffessional if you are intimidated get of the pitch.

 

[Cymro]

why is the pacific Islanders allowed to do 1 and know 1 kicks up a stink about them? Is it because people are looking for some reason to pick on the All Blacks [/b]

The above should be like this !!!

why is the pacific Islanders allowed to do one and know one kicks up a stink about them? Is it because people are looking for some reason to pick on the All Blacks [/b]

The point is that the Welsh were at home and wanted to reply to the Haka! I dont see anything wrong with that, I love the Haka and have nothing against it but if the home nation who are hosting the All Blacks want to reply then thye should be allowed!

 

[C A Iversen]

On the other hand, why stand there and allow your opposition to say "We are going to beat you"?

I think the opposition should retain the right to go train, pass the ball, pose for a team photo, whatever, while it's happening. I'm not saying I don't like the Haka, but why is the opposition held captive for that 60-90 secs? Thats what I don't understand.

As for all this, "It'll fire them up all the more, if they don't respect the challenge" talk, well sometimes thats the case and sometimes being too emotional will lose it.

Whats boring about the haka now, is that the oppositions ARE respecting it.

It gets all exciting when someone dares to NOT toe the line. As it stands we end up with about 15 ho-hum haka's throughout the year.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

If a group of professional rugby players that are the best their country has to offer are intimidated by a bunch of Kiwis moving their arms and chanting, than they are not good enough and should never be representing their country to start with.

I'd tell said men to stop being a bunch of p*ssies and just get on with it. With that type of attitude they have lost the game before it even started if they think the Haka gives New Zealand an advantage. [/b]

Well every time people talk about restricting the Haka you lot cry like babies...


The point isn't the growling and the screaming....it's the fact that the opposition are forced to stand there and wait until the ritual is finished. Whether they are the home team or they are they away team the Haka forces their opponents to be supine whilst it takes place. That is the key.

If they ignore it it's a cultural sleight if they go up and face it off it's disrespectfu & unsavouryl.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

<div class='quotemain'>

If a group of professional rugby players that are the best their country has to offer are intimidated by a bunch of Kiwis moving their arms and chanting, than they are not good enough and should never be representing their country to start with.

I'd tell said men to stop being a bunch of p*ssies and just get on with it. With that type of attitude they have lost the game before it even started if they think the Haka gives New Zealand an advantage. [/b]

Well every time people talk about restricting the Haka you lot cry like babies...


The point isn't the growling and the screaming....it's the fact that the opposition are forced to stand there and wait until the ritual is finished. Whether they are the home team or they are they away team the Haka forces their opponents to be supine whilst it takes place. That is the key.

If they ignore it it's a cultural sleight if they go up and face it off it's disrespectfu & unsavouryl.
[/b][/quote]



I'm not New Zealander.

 

[shazbooger]

The point isn't the growling and the screaming....it's the fact that the opposition are forced to stand there and wait until the ritual is finished. Whether they are the home team or they are they away team the Haka forces their opponents to be supine whilst it takes place. That is the key.
If they ignore it it's a cultural sleight if they go up and face it off it's disrespectful & unsavoury.
[/b]

Thats pretty much bang on.

If a group of professional rugby players that are the best their country has to offer are intimidated by a bunch of Kiwis moving their arms and chanting, than they are not good enough and should never be representing their country to start with. [/b]

Thats not a justification for the Haka, thats just the standard evasive answer. The question is should one team be given an opportunity to wave their arms and chant (as you say), and other isnt. Thats pretty much what it comes down to.

Anyhoo, this is the way to do it if you ask me. Answer it with pure aggression. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUHwCjeD7s

 

[imka]

Anyhoo, this is the way to do it if you ask me. Answer it with pure aggression.[/b]

Agree, player have to face the haka and beat him in there head

 

[C A Iversen]

Well, I am a New Zealander, and I can plainly say that we are going through a "you must be PC to our culture" phase in our history right now. Trust me I will be vilified for this, but most of us only see our side of the argument, full stop.

As far as I can see.

1. We demand to have the last say prior to the start of the match. Fine, but in someone else's country? Where is their home advantage they deserve?

2. Unlike 99% of other area's of the world, we put on a cultural war dance prior to competing, then ask, NO, expect, NO, Demand, YES, that our opposition watch it all and not move, or else.

3. We use tradition to justify unfairness over the issue.

This is a straight case of rights. In our country I would defend to the death that we do the Haka when and where we like, but come on, do we own England, Wales, France etc?

We expect good well behaved guests in our country, but apparently we lay down the law in others, or else cry about it.

It's about rights.

 

[diehardkiwi07]

No ones forced to do anything when the haka is performed it is there right, but if they choose to cry about it, it becomes there problem not ours. Remember Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Cook Islands do a haka as well, So where talking about 5 different country's when the intention of the argument is Solely directed at the All Blacks. Call it jelousy or what ever but there is a word for this, its called tall poppy syndrome. Where every man and his dog wants a crack at the team or person at the top of the food chain.

 

[C A Iversen]

Yeah, I did say 99% of the world doesn't do war-dances. Those 5 nations make-up about 1% of world sport and their are plenty of war-dance cultures out there.

Well ok then the opposition can do what they want, according to what you say. Thats great.

Then how come when the welsh wanted to have the last say in their own country, the AB's were the ones to hide in the dressing room and say "your not going to get a haka, so there!"

 

[I Bleed Black]

Well, I am a New Zealander, and I can plainly say that we are going through a "you must be PC to our culture" phase in our history right now. Trust me I will be vilified for this, but most of us only see our side of the argument, full stop.

As far as I can see.

1. We demand to have the last say prior to the start of the match. Fine, but in someone else's country? Where is their home advantage they deserve?

2. Unlike 99% of other area's of the world, we put on a cultural war dance prior to competing, then ask, NO, expect, NO, Demand, YES, that our opposition watch it all and not move, or else.

3. We use tradition to justify unfairness over the issue.

This is a straight case of rights. In our country I would defend to the death that we do the Haka when and where we like, but come on, do we own England, Wales, France etc?

We expect good well behaved guests in our country, but apparently we lay down the law in others, or else cry about it.

It's about rights.
[/b]

Any country hosting the All Blacks, can easily create enough pressure to replicatee what happened in Wales last time if they wish. But the truth is, more than half of all rugby followers around the world and in individual countries, would prefer the Haka existed and was performed (no scientific evidence but willing to put the house on it). We all live in democratic countries for better of worse and nothing is forced on anyone.

Every union knows that the ABs, along with the haka puts bums on seats at top dollar, it is a fiscal reality

I seem to remember the Welsh public criticizing the Welsh officials over being denied the Haka, as opposed to the ABs moaning about it. They just did it for them selves in the locker room then proceeded to do the business on the field.

If the overall world consensus is for the the ABs to drop the Haka or move it to a different time in the proceedings then so be it in my book, but I personally think that the experience for the public will be a poorer one.

Yeah, I did say 99% of the world doesn't do war-dances. Those 5 nations make-up about 1% of world sport and their are plenty of war-dance cultures out there.

Well ok then the opposition can do what they want, according to what you say. Thats great.

Then how come when the welsh wanted to have the last say in their own country, the AB's were the ones to hide in the dressing room and say "your not going to get a haka, so there!"
[/b]

Well Im sure you remember the argument from the time. blah blah about allowing the tradition to be changed once for a 100 year centenary, on the proviso that it is a one off and reverts back to normal after.

Personally proud the ABs stood their ground - made a stand - and a point, Proud that Kiwis can do that in the face of public pressure, and still believe they made the right choice.

Hey the ABs said to the world - We are going to do the Haka regardless for ourselves, if you want your public to enjoy the spectacle, then we expect to be able to do it the same way we have done for years (without complaint)

Never once in my limited years have I heard of the ABs complain of a response to the Haka, even when the Irish got right in their faces - any complaints?? only from the guy ticking over the scoreboard as his arm stared to tire!!

 

[Cymro]

Fine then well see the Irish doing a river dance and the Scots and Welsh dancing with their kilts on prior to kick off!

 

[I Bleed Black]

Fine then well see the Irish doing a river dance and the Scots and Welsh dancing with their kilts on prior to kick off!
[/b]

Would probably be quite effective in showing what good, humorous sports the Celtic nations are, and show that perhaps us Kiwis are just a bit to precious sometimes :unsure:

 

[C A Iversen]

No meaning to be too serious, but why is it humorous if the Irish and the Welsh do their dance. It's not about raw aggression, but surely valid in it's own right.

If it's to be a dance-off then a game, we'll all get more for our dollar.

 

[I Bleed Black]

No meaning to be too serious, but why is it humorous if the Irish and the Welsh do their dance. It's not about raw aggression, but surely valid in it's own right.

If it's to be a dance-off then a game, we'll all get more for our dollar.
[/b]

Humorous?? Dont you think that it would be?? I mean to agree with you, of course they have the right, but seriously the haka followed by the riverdance, That is one way of getting rugby in every sports report around the world!!