Disgraceful treatment of Fiji by ref and coverage

[bulbs]

I will preface this by saying I am a wallabies supporter and when not supporting the Wallabies I often support Wales. But today was a dark day for Rugby. The refereeing was so terribly biased. We all know that there is often a bias towards tier 1 teams getting a fairer deal but this match was going way too far. How did Biggar not get a yellow card for cynical play on the line he was never onside and it stopped a try. How many times does the referee need to say one more time and there will be a yellow card and then nothing happens. They were offside continually and then topped it off with the whole team slowly walking back to the half way line. Then they go down to the Fiji line and the fijians do one thing and 10minutes in the bin. I would have loved Fiji to have held that last pass and given international rugby a giant finger. And this was topped off by the biased coverage of the match. They did a big feature on Wales before the match and barely said anythng about Fiji. The commentary team were all Welsh with no impatial representation and the after match commentary was all about Wales and then when they were crossing to the Fiji coach for live interview they cut it off to talk more about Wales. It was so disrespectful. Instead of enjoying what was a crazy match I just feel so angry.

 

[Half Pint]

What's problematic is the ref calling the Wales players by their first names, and then saying "White no.9" or whatever to Fiji.

 

[Joe 90]

I will preface this by saying I am a wallabies supporter and when not supporting the Wallabies I often support Wales. But today was a dark day for Rugby. The refereeing was so terribly biased. We all know that there is often a bias towards tier 1 teams getting a fairer deal but this match was going way too far. How did Biggar not get a yellow card for cynical play on the line he was never onside and it stopped a try. How many times does the referee need to say one more time and there will be a yellow card and then nothing happens. They were offside continually and then topped it off with the whole team slowly walking back to the half way line. Then they go down to the Fiji line and the fijians do one thing and 10minutes in the bin. I would have loved Fiji to have held that last pass and given international rugby a giant finger. And this was topped off by the biased coverage of the match. They did a big feature on Wales before the match and barely said anythng about Fiji. The commentary team were all Welsh with no impatial representation and the after match commentary was all about Wales and then when they were crossing to the Fiji coach for live interview they cut it off to talk more about Wales. It was so disrespectful. Instead of enjoying what was a crazy match I just feel so angry.

Well said.....Been watching for decades and the bias against the Tier 2 teams is out of control, it is flat out disgusting.....Fiji were robbed blind in this game. The Tier 1 teams are clearly terrified of letting the likes of Fiji out of the group stage, as then the whole world will be watching the bias and their cheating will be much harder to hide....as let's face it a well trained Fiji/Samoa etc, are likely to thrash most Tier 1 nations in a fair contest, as they are such wonderfull players. It's only the bias that keeps them down....

Who ever wins this World cup, will win a tainted trophy.

As for the coverage 3 Welsh muppets in the Studio and 2 more on the match and not a Fijian in sight......no chance of any bias there either.

 

[Which Tyler]

And it's not like there aren't any Fijian ex-internationals kicking around in England who could do a good job as a pundit (potentially, barring being too humble and softly spoken, on the whole).
Someone like Nicky Little would do an excellent job IMO.

 

[Saintjay]

Well said.....Been watching for decades and the bias against the Tier 2 teams is out of control, it is flat out disgusting.....Fiji were robbed blind in this game. The Tier 1 teams are clearly terrified of letting the likes of Fiji out of the group stage, as then the whole world will be watching the bias and their cheating will be much harder to hide....as let's face it a well trained Fiji/Samoa etc, are likely to thrash most Tier 1 nations in a fair contest, as they are such wonderfull players. It's only the bias that keeps them down....

Who ever wins this World cup, will win a tainted trophy.

As for the coverage 3 Welsh muppets in the Studio and 2 more on the match and not a Fijian in sight......no chance of any bias there either.

All tier 1 teans biased and cheating. Remind me how England got on against Fiji? Wales vs Georgia. This is the first time in a long time the likes of Fiji, Samoa etc have been competitive at a RWC. That's mainly due to the agreement between nations to change the rules on when players can switch nations.

If you are good enough to win you win. If you are having to blame the ref you were not good enough. Yes some decisions didn't go there way but the tier 1 nations didn't make Radradra drop the ball either.

 

[Half Pint]

"If you are good enough to win you win.."

So you don't believe that referees have any influence on the game at all? Might as well dispense with them altogether, then.
Probably for Wales v Fiji it would have levelled the playing field a bit.

 

[Saintjay]

"If you are good enough to win you win.."

So you don't believe that referees have any influence on the game at all? Might as well dispense with them altogether, then.
Probably for Wales v Fiji it would have levelled the playing field a bit.

At what point did i say ref's don't influence games at all? I certainly don't think they cheat, or are biased. Is there an issue with consistency with refereeing. Yes there is but ultimately it's based on the opinion on one man in the middle and his assistants.

Did the ref make Radradra drop the ball, did he let Wales get into a 32 - 14 point lead.

If Fiji had capalised on the possession that they had they should have won. They didn't and that wasn't all down to the ref. Not being good enough to convert possession into points is more of a reason they lost than the ref.

Would anyone be moaning about this if they had won. Nobody is praising the refs for the many decisions they got correct. Rugby has so many 50/50 decisions and grey areas. The poster suggesting it's tier 1 bias and cheating is ridiculous.

 

[Joe 90]

All tier 1 teans biased and cheating. Remind me how England got on against Fiji? Wales vs Georgia. This is the first time in a long time the likes of Fiji, Samoa etc have been competitive at a RWC. That's mainly due to the agreement between nations to change the rules on when players can switch nations.

If you are good enough to win you win. If you are having to blame the ref you were not good enough. Yes some decisions didn't go there way but the tier 1 nations didn't make Radradra drop the ball either.

The Ref must be consistent, the only consistancy in that game was the Ref ignoring Welsh infringements and blowing for anything seen or imagined by the Fijians ...that ain't sport.

 

[Saintjay]

The Ref must be consistent, the only consistancy in that game was the Ref ignoring Welsh infringements and blowing for anything seen or imagined by the Fijians ...that ain't sport.

Consistency is an issue yes. It's not tier 1 bias and cheating. Look at the Curry, Kriel cards debate as an example.

 

[Joe 90]

At what point did i say ref's don't influence games at all? I certainly don't think they cheat, or are biased. Is there an issue with consistency with refereeing. Yes there is but ultimately it's based on the opinion on one man in the middle and his assistants.

Did the ref make Radradra drop the ball, did he let Wales get into a 32 - 14 point lead.

If Fiji had capalised on the possession that they had they should have won. They didn't and that wasn't all down to the ref. Not being good enough to convert possession into points is more of a reason they lost than the ref.

Would anyone be moaning about this if they had won. Nobody is praising the refs for the many decisions they got correct. Rugby has so many 50/50 decisions and grey areas. The poster suggesting it's tier 1 bias and cheating is ridiculous.

Yes..... the bias was ridiculous from the start.

 

[Joe 90]

Consistency is an issue yes. It's not tier 1 bias and cheating. Look at the Curry, Kriel cards debate as an example.

The same bias has been against Tier 2 countries for decades.......to say that hasn't been the case is just plain wrong....

 

[Welsh Exile]

He got some big decisions wrong but let's not pretend he didn't give Fiji a thing. They were constantly off their feet, offside and pre latching. While a lot of those calls weren't in big moments we could've had at least half a dozen or so given to us on a different day by another referee which could've put us out of sight. I think their debrief will focus on themselves rather than moaning about the ref, who I agree didn't have a good game.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He got some big decisions wrong but let's not pretend he didn't give Fiji a thing. They were constantly off their feet, offside and pre latching. While a lot of those calls weren't in big moments we could've had at least half a dozen or so given to us on a different day by another referee which could've put us out of sight. I think their debrief will focus on themselves rather than moaning about the ref, who I agree didn't have a good game.

True but Wales, on top of the issues already raised, were constantly sealing off, blocking support players at the ruck, not supporting their body weight etc. Those every game things roughly balance out between Fiji and Wales but the absolute shockers were pretty much universally in Wales favour.

 

[OllyM97]

People can try and deflect attention from it all they want, but I'm going to say it - Carley cost Fiji the game with his decisions. How were Wales not down to at least 13 for the last few minutes?. Why did he reset that scrum when Fiji were going to push them over?. Why was a clear yellow card and penalty try not given at the end of the first half when there was an obvious no arms tackle?. The whole thing was a complete joke. Wales had to give 4 penalties away on their goal line to get a "final warning ", Fiji collapsed one maul and got an instant sin-bin. The favouritism was blatant. I've not seen as one sided a refereeing display as that in a long time. Appalling.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think we all agree on the 4 pens on our try line thing but I don't think the no arms tackle was a pen try as Rowlands was there making a legal tackle but obviously should've been a pen. I'd also say that just because he messed up not sin binning Biggar that doesn't mean the Fiji yelllow wasn't a yellow but, yeah, the inconsistency is annoying for sure but I'd say there's a lot of hyperbole going on here as well. Carly wasn't responsible for the dozen or so handling errors or Fiji dropping the ball over the line and he actually made a very good call on that double/triple movement try.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I didn't see any bias. It was simply a case of a ref not wanting to give away too many penalties and cards, probably on orders from world rugby, and the welsh non-decisions being marginal calls on that basis even though they'd likely have been called in another game. The biggar one for instance, every day a yellow in another game, but in this game because fiji managed relatively quick ball anyway he let it slide. Ultimately fiji suffered more from the referees approach, but there was a lot of non-calls going both ways in that game. Of course unconscious bias could have affected those calls too, but it seems a bit ridiculous to suggest there is a conscious bias as a result of some anti-tier 2 world rugby conspiracy that all the referees are in on. As much as I think alternative theories should be contemplated, I just can't see how there wouldn't be some referee who said no and outed world rugby for what they'd been asked to do.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I didn't see any bias. It was simply a case of a ref not wanting to give away too many penalties and cards, probably on orders from world rugby, and the welsh non-decisions being marginal calls on that basis even though they'd likely have been called in another game. The biggar one for instance, every day a yellow in another game, but in this game because fiji managed relatively quick ball anyway he let it slide. Ultimately fiji suffered more from the referees approach, but there was a lot of non-calls going both ways in that game. Of course unconscious bias could have affected those calls too, but it seems a bit ridiculous to suggest there is a conscious bias as a result of some anti-tier 1 world rugby conspiracy that all the referees are in on. As much as I think alternative theories should be contemplated, I just can't see how there wouldn't be some referee who said no and outed world rugby for what they'd been asked to do.

I agree, the same applies to any conspiracy really whether it be covid or aliens, if it were true so many people and governments were in on it how has it not been outed?

The only thing my conspiracy brain thinks about is that the reaction to the perceived favouritism to Wales was so overboard that it probably means we're going to get absolutely shafted by every ref in every game going forwards now but it's not really a conspiracy just a unconscious bias (potentially conscious) against us in later games

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think you have to give Carley the benefit of the doubt here and just presume that he is incredibly **** at his job to the point of near incompetence.

This is a WR failure to produce quality refs, not a conspiracy.

 

[saulan]

I think you have to give Carley the benefit of the doubt here and just presume that he is incredibly **** at his job to the point of near incompetence.

This is a WR failure to produce quality refs, not a conspiracy.

Agreed, the key thing though is we cap it with him in the group stages and don't have him reffing in the quarters. We have a precedent of them doing the opposite (and a lot of pressure happening behind the scenes) resulting into even more of a terrible situation and result for the referee and his career.

Pulling out some key quotes on this 2012 article following Bryce Lawrence's retirement:

Lawrence upset Australia at last year's World Cup by the way he controlled their group match against Ireland, which they lost, putting them on a collision course with the holders New Zealand in the last four, and then angered South Africa by his laissez-faire attitude in their quarter-final with the Wallabies.

"I went into the quarter-final knowing it was a massive match and I didn't want to overly influence the outcome," said the 41-year-old Lawrence, who will become a high-performance referee reviewer for the New Zealand Rugby Union. "The way that transpired was I didn't make decisions and, if I had my time again, I would just go out there and do what I normally do, which is just referee and back myself.

"I had four really good [group] games at the World Cup and then I had that. I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries behind the scenes that really created my mindset of lacking confidence to deliver what I normally do. There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment with some people kicking up a massive stink. It probably made me freeze on the biggest stage."

Bryce Lawrence retires from refereeing and blames political pressure | Rugby union | The Guardian

The controversial New Zealand official has retired from refereeing, claiming that political pressure forced him out

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Joe 90]

I didn't see any bias. It was simply a case of a ref not wanting to give away too many penalties and cards, probably on orders from world rugby, and the welsh non-decisions being marginal calls on that basis even though they'd likely have been called in another game. The biggar one for instance, every day a yellow in another game, but in this game because fiji managed relatively quick ball anyway he let it slide. Ultimately fiji suffered more from the referees approach, but there was a lot of non-calls going both ways in that game. Of course unconscious bias could have affected those calls too, but it seems a bit ridiculous to suggest there is a conscious bias as a result of some anti-tier 2 world rugby conspiracy that all the referees are in on. As much as I think alternative theories should be contemplated, I just can't see how there wouldn't be some referee who said no and outed world rugby for what they'd been asked to do.

Are we getting a bit too close to the main culprit !!!!!