Crusaders target SA talent

[User1245]

Pretoria - The Crusaders face a storm of controversy ahead of their Vodacom Super 14 semi-final this weekend against the Bulls in Soweto after plans were revealed that they plan to poach South Africa’s best under-16 players.
The South African Rugby Union has confirmed it has approached the New Zealand Rugby Union on an official level to complain about the “horrifying†Crusaders conduct in trying to bolster their youth ranks with South African talent. SARU CEO Johan Prinsloo confirmed to Supersport.com that a strongly worded letter had been sent to the NZRU to complain after the Crusaders Academy approached major rugby schools in the country to try and recruit players at a “talent identification camp†in Pretoria in July.

The story was initially picked up by Business Day Friday, and Prinsloo confirmed to Supersport that a high-level meeting had taken place, where SARU had decided that that the plans were to be met with “anger and disgustâ€. The news comes hours before the Crusaders hope to upset the odds and beat the defending Super 14 champion Bulls in the first international rugby game to be played in Soweto Saturday.

A letter from the Crusaders Academy has been circulated to schools in SA containing detailed information about a “nationwide talent identification programmeâ€, with the first step in this process being “an all-expenses-paid training camp†for 60 under-16 players in Pretoria from July 5-10.

Players for the camp are expected to be recruited from Pretoria, Johannesburg, Bloemfontein, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Durban.

Crusaders coach Todd Blackadder and several former Crusaders Test players are expected to attend the invitation-only camp.

Players would be enticed with long-term scholarship opportunities, whereafter they would graduate into the Crusaders wider training squad, with an eye on representing the New Zealand franchise in the Super 14 and ultimately the All Blacks after that.

SARU said they would also inform the Minister of Sport, Makhenkesi Stofile and the chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Sport, Butana Khompela about the situation and hoped to resolve it amicably. If not, SARU would formally ask SANZAR to intervene.

“We understand that it is a free market and that players will move, but we have had a look at the letter that has been forwarded to principles and sport organisers in schools in the country,†SARU CEO Johan Prinsloo told Supersport.com “We invest very heavily in our young talent with our extensive junior programmes at under 13, 16, 18, 19 and 20 level, not only in terms of money and coaching, but we also cover transport and accommodation costs for these junior weeks. All this money comes from the provincial unions and SARU.

“We know that from time to time individuals will move to other countries, but we think that this time it is pushing the limit a bit too far,†Prinsloo added.

SARU was alarmed with the intent that the Crusaders have in recruiting young talent, and feels it had to act to stop the country being pillaged of its young talent.

“It is the first time that it came at us with such a gale force wind. From time to time we are made aware of these sorts of incidents but this is a very big concern that we felt we had to address.

“We had a meeting and decided to send a letter to the New Zealand Rugby Union, as well as the SA Schools Association strongly condemning this action. We also sent letters to all the schools involved, communicating to them that we have a major investment in the youth in the respective provinces and that it is our responsibility to protect and maintain this talent in South Africa.â€

Prinsloo said he hoped the issue would be resolved amicably and that the Crusaders would withdraw their attempts to recruit young talent in South Africa.

“If not, we feel we have a good enough relationship with our SANZAR partners to take it up at SANZAR level.†The letter to the NZRU, excerpts of which were published by Business Day, admits that from time to time individuals are targeted “but what we find frankly horrifying is the systematic and widespread targeting of young players in SA ...â€

“We would therefore appreciate it if you could intervene on our behalf with the Crusaders by passing on our concerns and asking them to cancel the expedition. This initiative may be strictly legal, but it disregards the ethos of the game and we regard it as an aggressive and selfish enterprise, paying little regard to the welfare of a Sanzar partner and — because of the envisaged scale — interfering in the rugby operations of a fellow International Rugby Board member,†the letter reads.

The IRB confirmed as well to Supersport.com that it “is aware of the matter†and is “currently gathering facts†before reacting to the Crusaders move.

Prinsloo did say however that while the Crusaders officials may be in attendance with SARU officials at the Super 14 semi-final in Soweto, they would not be approached on the matter, leaving it for a “more appropriate forum.†“Saturday is such a big day historically for South African rugby that we don’t want to take away from it. We believe their representatives are here to enjoy the match and we will address the issue at a more appropriate forum,†Prinsloo concluded.

The move has also been greeted with shock and surprise in Pretoria, with Bulls High Performance Manager Ian Schwartz perplexed as to the reasons behind it.

“It is surprising, especially as we know the Crusaders to already have such strong structures. They are normally one of the best sides in bringing through young talent. In practice it certainly doesn’t sound like the ideal situation. It is the same as someone picking the best vegetables in a corner shop and then standing there and selling it as their own,†Schwartz, the former SA under-20 manager and one of the best youth identification scouts in the country believes. The Crusaders may have some advantage at not playing at Loftus, but their plans to poach SA talent could make the Orlando bullring an even more intimidating place to play.

Source

They used to do it sneakily during the Craven Week, now they sending out invites! Naughty naughty

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

This bit bothers me.

Players would be enticed with long-term scholarship opportunities, whereafter they would graduate into the Crusaders wider training squad, with an eye on representing the New Zealand franchise in the Super 14 and ultimately the All Blacks after that.

Take soccer as an example. Leo Messi was recruited by Barcelona as a 12 year old. Barcelona and the Spanish FA were happy for him to play for the Argentina national soccer team. Top Irish players tend to move to English clubs at 16 yet the FA aren't imploring them to switch nationality. Why is it that rugby unions do this?

If the Crusaders want to "poach" South African players let them at it but switching nationality shouldn't be the price paid. I've no problem with teams raiding other countries for young players once they're free to represent their home nation.

 

[Boggle]

Well we have a problem with it.

You play for your own country, it doesn't matter which franchise in your country, as long as you play for your nation.

This sort of BS is going to turn the Super 14 into the Premier league, a bunch of foreigners playing for an "english" team
and this effectively stops a lot of potential players from your -own- country getting the chance to play top class rugby,
which means you're damaging your own stock.

I like the cap where you are only allowed a maximum of 2 foreign players in your team, no more should be allowed.

 

[ranger]

I have a problem with this because it has already been proven to be untrue! This is just a tame story that some journalist has twisted and mutilated until its interesting. The Crusaders cant even sign any players! they aren't really a club in their own right, its up to member unions to sign players, so theres your first clue somethings up. Then the fact that they are in financial debt, yet this story claims they are offering 60 all expenses plaid trips? i doubt that.

The Crusaders are merely being paid to be figureheads for a sporting academy in Pretoria. An academy that also features golf and football etc. It kind of ****** me off that this journalist has just plain made things up " Players would be enticed with long-term scholarship opportunities, whereafter they would graduate into the Crusaders wider training squad, with an eye on representing the New Zealand franchise in the Super 14 and ultimately the All Blacks after that." <This has no grounding in fact whatsoever, hes just guessing.

New Zealand doesn't operate a 2 foreign player cap, they have a 0 foreign player cap. You have to be eligible for the all blacks to play super 14, you can apply for dispensation but it isnt handed out very often, its only given when the player in question isnt blocking the path of an NZ player. Thats why Vili Ma'afu had to wait till he was 28 to make his debut for the Blues.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

This sounds like a beat-up to me. Let's leave the slagging each other off thing for the NH teams. After all, it's the unions upstairs who are the real player drain.

 

[Bokbe4k]

If it is true and it seems to be,then its bad form on the crusaders side but I think the crusaders have more than enough of their own talent to bring through their ranks.

 

[Prestwick]

This sounds like (SARU got) beat-up to me. Let's leave the slagging each other off thing for the (SA) teams. After all, it's the (boks) who are the real player drain.

OMG! HEY SOUTH AFRICA look at what CA and the kiwis said about you saffas! You're not going to let that lie are you?!

 

[nickdnz]

If it is true and it seems to be,then its bad form on the crusaders side but I think the crusaders have more than enough of their own talent to bring through their ranks.

But it clearly isn't true...

Without seeming disrespectful, New Zealand has the best rugby schools and age grade teams in the world. That can be proven as we have won the last several years U21 competition as well as schools competitions. We don't need to poach, we can bearly keep our talent in New Zealand, little own bring forign talent in. Poor journalism.

 

[ranger]

If it is true and it seems to be,then its bad form on the crusaders side but I think the crusaders have more than enough of their own talent to bring through their ranks.

It clearly isnt true, ive already given the reasons why it isnt..
And as nick says, our youth systems are great as it is. Tim Nanai-Williams couldn't even make the under 20 team last year.

 

[Bokbe4k]

OMG! HEY SOUTH AFRICA look at what CA and the kiwis said about you saffas! You're not going to let that lie are you?!

In that sig of yours,dont you mean SA_racens?

 

[Bokbe4k]

But it clearly isn't true...

Without seeming disrespectful, New Zealand has the best rugby schools and age grade teams in the world. That can be proven as we have won the last several years U21 competition as well as schools competitions. We don't need to poach, we can bearly keep our talent in New Zealand, little own bring forign talent in. Poor journalism.

Dont think its poor journalism,A letter of concern was handed over to NZRU and invitations of a training camp was send out to our best rugby schools the only thing that was denied by the crusaders was the poaching allegations but then why set up a training camp for the best schools in SA and just for a group of 60 players.

This is an article from keo.co.za

South Africa’s top rugby school still believes the Crusaders intend to poach players at an invitational camp in Pretoria.

On Friday, it emerged that the Crusaders had mailed letters to South Africa’s top rugby schools enticing them to send their best players to a development and skills camp from 6-10 July. Saru then sent a letter to the New Zealand Rugby Union requesting that they intervene and prevent the Crusaders from recruiting South Africa’s junior talent.

On Saturday, Crusaders CEO Hamish Riach denied there is anything sinister about the camp and was adamant that the Crusaders don’t intend to recruit South African players for the New Zealand franchise.

But Grey College aren’t taking any chances. The No 1 ranked school in the country has received the Crusaders’ invitation for the camp, but won’t be sending any players.

‘In the letter it says the camp is development-orientated, but one still gets a feeling that it is a process of recruitment,’ Grey’s director of rugby, Dries van der Wal, told keo.co.za.

‘South Africa’s top schoolboys will be at the camp, so what will stop them from offering players who impress them a deal with the Crusaders?’

Van der Wal added that Grey will not support this initiative.

‘Grey won’t send any players and it is our final decision. We feel our best players must stay in South Africa.

‘We are all for the development of our players, but we don’t want our players to be based overseas.

‘I’ve spoken to some schools in the Bloemfontein region and they won’t send any of their players and the Free State Rugby Union is against this camp. But I haven’t been in contact with other schools in the country, so I don’t know what they will do.’

 

[ranger]

Dont think its poor journalism,A letter of concern was handed over to NZRU and invitations of a training camp was send out to our best rugby schools the only thing that was denied by the crusaders was the poaching allegations but then why set up a training camp for the best schools in SA and just for a group of 60 players.

This is an article from keo.co.za

South Africa’s top rugby school still believes the Crusaders intend to poach players at an invitational camp in Pretoria.

On Friday, it emerged that the Crusaders had mailed letters to South Africa’s top rugby schools enticing them to send their best players to a development and skills camp from 6-10 July. Saru then sent a letter to the New Zealand Rugby Union requesting that they intervene and prevent the Crusaders from recruiting South Africa’s junior talent.

On Saturday, Crusaders CEO Hamish Riach denied there is anything sinister about the camp and was adamant that the Crusaders don’t intend to recruit South African players for the New Zealand franchise.

But Grey College aren’t taking any chances. The No 1 ranked school in the country has received the Crusaders’ invitation for the camp, but won’t be sending any players.

‘In the letter it says the camp is development-orientated, but one still gets a feeling that it is a process of recruitment,’ Grey’s director of rugby, Dries van der Wal, told keo.co.za.

‘South Africa’s top schoolboys will be at the camp, so what will stop them from offering players who impress them a deal with the Crusaders?’

Van der Wal added that Grey will not support this initiative.

‘Grey won’t send any players and it is our final decision. We feel our best players must stay in South Africa.

‘We are all for the development of our players, but we don’t want our players to be based overseas.

‘I’ve spoken to some schools in the Bloemfontein region and they won’t send any of their players and the Free State Rugby Union is against this camp. But I haven’t been in contact with other schools in the country, so I don’t know what they will do.’

They didnt "set up" a training camp! There is an existing sports academy in Pretoria, i think its called the Centurion Academy or something. All the Crusaders are doing is promoting it, putting their name behind it to entice players to go to a South African sports academy. In return for promoting the academy, the Crusaders franchise is being paid.
Its **** poor journalism in that they claimed that these players would progress to the Crusaders wider training squad and on to the All Blacks.. that has clearly just made up by some journalist. The Crusaders wider training squad isn't really some academy vehicle for grooming players as has been claimed, its a group of 8 or so guys that train with the Crusaders incase of injury.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

They didnt "set up" a training camp! There is an existing sports academy in Pretoria, i think its called the Centurion Academy or something. All the Crusaders are doing is promoting it, putting their name behind it to entice players to go to a South African sports academy. In return for promoting the academy, the Crusaders franchise is being paid.
Its **** poor journalism in that they claimed that these players would progress to the Crusaders wider training squad and on to the All Blacks.. that has clearly just made up by some journalist. The Crusaders wider training squad isn't really some academy vehicle for grooming players as has been claimed, its a group of 8 or so guys that train with the Crusaders incase of injury.

I'm glad to see that a majority of South Africans on here have a bit of an "innocent until proven guilty" approach to this subject, but as for the rest, can we please be guilty first before these charges stick? We didn't take Clyde Rathbone while we're on the subject.

 

[Bokbe4k]

Here is the letter, in full, sent by Jacques van Heerden to leading South African schools:
Judge for your self.

via www.rugby365.com

"17 May 2010; Dear Sir

"Crusaders of New Zealand is planning a nationwide programme of talent identification in South Africa, with the goal of offering this country's most exciting young prospects a variety of opportunities to experience the culture of New Zealand's most successful Super Rugby franchise. A unique programme of elite performance coaching has been developed for young players in South Africa in addition to post-matric opportunities in Christchurch.

"As part of the talent identification Crusaders is hosting an all expenses paid training camp in Pretoria from 5-10 July. Hosted by coach Todd Blackadder and several former Crusaders test players, the camp will feature 18 sessions of world-class conditioning and coaching presented by recognised experts and coaches. Each player will undergo an intensive physiological assessment and receive a detailed report of his results. Career advice and information will be presented by a sport agent, and the entertainment programme will include access to the FIFA World Cup and other premier events.

"Entrance to the camp is by invitation only, and 60 U16 players will be chosen from across South Africa to attend - where they will compete for selection in 2011. In order to identify the group of 60, Crusaders will be hosting assessments according to the following schedule:
*Thursday, 27 May - Pretoria
*Friday, 28 May - Johannesburg
*Monday, 31 May - Bloemfontein
*Tuesday, 1 June - Cape Town
*Wednesday, 2 June - Port Elizabeth
*Thursday, 3 June - Durban

"The assessments will include full anthropometric, strength and fitness testing and physiological evaluation by Players Performance Management. Attendance of the assessments is free and also by invitation only. It is our request that you identify the two best U16 players in each position at your institution and submit them for assessment. The 60 best players from around the country will be selected on the basis of their performance and travel to Pretoria in July.

"Crusaders is offering a unique long-term opportunity for talented players, and I trust we will enjoy your full support in securing their future. The Sports Master from each school that contributes five or more players to the July training camp will be invited to attend and be hosted by Crusaders. Five of these masters will be selected at the end of the camp to travel to New Zealand in January with members of the management team.

"Please confirm your intention to submit your players for assessment before the end of Wednesday, 19 May. Application forms and confirmation of assessment venues will be supplied upon reply, for completion and return by no later than Monday, 24 May.

"Best Regards; Jacques van Heerden; Project Manager."

 

[User1245]

That letter does paint a more proactive role on the behalf of the Crusaders. Seem cynical too me.
I think what has made us so paranoid about this kind of thing is the way Australia have been going about recruiting our young talent in the past.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

That letter does paint a more proactive role on the behalf of the Crusaders. Seem cynical too me.
I think what has made us so paranoid about this kind of thing is the way Australia have been going about recruiting our young talent in the past.

Who have Austraila poached in the past? Well apart from Dan Vickerman, Clyde Rathbone, Tiaan Strauss, David Pocock, Patricio Noriega, Lote Tuqiri, Will Genia, Willie Ofahengaue, Radike Samo, Rodney Blake, Toutai Kefu, Stephen Moore............

 

[ranger]

That letter does paint a more proactive role on the behalf of the Crusaders. Seem cynical too me.
I think what has made us so paranoid about this kind of thing is the way Australia have been going about recruiting our young talent in the past.

... You do realise that NZ is a seperate country right?
Quade Cooper, Brackin Karauira-Henry, Richard Kingi, Dean Mumm, Sekope Kepu, Pek Cowan, Christian Lealiifano and to a lesser extent JOC were all snatched away from NZ by Aus aswell.
The only SA poach NZ has ever made was Greg Rawlinson, and he was **** poor anyway.

 

[Bokbe4k]

... You do realise that NZ is a seperate country right?
Quade Cooper, Brackin Karauira-Henry, Richard Kingi, Dean Mumm, Sekope Kepu, Pek Cowan, Christian Lealiifano and to a lesser extent JOC were all snatched away from NZ by Aus aswell.
The only SA poach NZ has ever made was Greg Rawlinson, and he was **** poor anyway.

Read his post again,carefully and you will understand what he is saying.

 

[ranger]

Read his post again,carefully and you will understand what he is saying.

I have already read his post, and i always read carefully.
Saying you have been mauled by a tiger in the past and then using that as the reason why you are scared of kittens doesn't make any sense.

New Zealand has never been a poacher of South African talent, and it doesn't make sense on any level to start now, surely they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Bokbe4k]

I have already read his post, and i always read carefully.
Saying you have been mauled by a tiger in the past and then using that as the reason why you are scared of kittens doesn't make any sense.

New Zealand has never been a poacher of South African talent, and it doesn't make sense on any level to start now, surely they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

I dont understand your thinking here,SA has every right to be concerned about this,just take our cricket for instance almost half the english team is ex South African,now there is talk of Brad Barrit going to play for england.SA's young talent is being ripped away left and right and youre talking about tigers and kittens,the fact is even if it was a rumor there is still more than enough reason to be concerned but you know the saying,where there is smoke there is a fire.