Crunch Time for the Australian Conference, weekend from hell has arrived.

[Larksea]

The Aussie table hit a new low this past weekend as the injury ravaged lowest ranked NZ team beat the Aussies best, the Brumbies in their own backyard.

that makes it 7 - 0 in NZ vs AUS games this season. The Aussie table is looking very under the weather.

But this weekend is shaping up to be ground zero for Aussie Rugby. 4 NZ v. AUS games... it has to be said that the NZ teams are probably the favorites in each match? The blues may be struggling against NZ sides but have been one of the hardest sides for Aussie teams to face. Blues have almost been unbeatable at home for Aussie teams.

Highlanders v Rebels
Blues v Force
Reds v Hurricanes
Waratahs v Crusaders

Dropping all these games will turn the Aussie table into a horror story.

I'm not trying to poke fun at the aussies, this is bad for super rugby as a whole. As Rugby in general seems to be gaining momentum internationally it seems to be slipping in Australia and losing ground to other sports mainly football. I think that's a shame, lets face it football sucks!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I'd give the Waratahs a good chance of tipping over the Crusaders - would say that's a 50/50 game. Otherwise, should be wins all round for NZ.

 

[Makos]

Yeah, apologies to the Rebels/Force fans, but seeing one of those teams culled/merged seems the only solution to strengthen their franchises.

Looking at it, I think the Force have the bigger fanbase from the two, so sadly for the Rebels, it has to be them

They don't have the depth to be spread so thin.

To be honest with the way things have gone in South Africa with their player exodus they are in the exact same boat.

Fortunately the competition is being reduced to 15 teams once again.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah, apologies to the Rebels/Force fans, but seeing one of those teams culled/merged seems the only solution to strengthen their franchises.

Looking at it, I think the Force have the bigger fanbase from the two, so sadly for the Rebels, it has to be them

They don't have the depth to be spread so thin.

To be honest with the way things have gone in South Africa with their player exodus they are in the exact same boat.

Fortunately the competition is being reduced to 15 teams once again.

The Rebels are near totally invisible in Melbourne. Meanwhile the AFL had record opening day crowds, and the largest single day attendance since 2013; over 400,000 across the nine matches; almost 45,000 on average per match, with just undr 80,000 turning up for Essenden v Hawthorn..

ROUND ONE CROWDS
73,137 at Richmond v Carlton (MCG)
66,254 at Western Bulldogs v Magpies (MCG)
36,249 at Melbourne v St Kilda (Etihad Stadium)
33,129 at Port Adelaide v Sydney (SCG)
78,294 at Essendon Bombers v Hawthorn (MCG)
12,710 at Brisbane v Gold Coast (Metricon Stadium)
21,997 at West Coast v Kangaroos (Etihad Stadium)
43,993 at Adelaide Crows v GWS (Adelaide Oval)
34,638 at Geelong Cats v Fremantle Dockers

TOTAL: 400,401 PREVIOUS RECORD: 371, 212 set during round 15, 2013

I feel sorry for the ARU, how can the Rebels Compete with numbers like this?

 

[saulan]

I'd give the Waratahs a good chance of tipping over the Crusaders - would say that's a 50/50 game. Otherwise, should be wins all round for NZ.

I can't even see this happening, the Waratahs have been pretty dismal this year and were lucky that the Rebels lost the plot for them to win last week.

 

[SomeOke]

Honestly in order to compete with NZ we'd have to squeeze the Aussies in to two teams and the Saffers in to three.
I think the problem with SR is how complicated it is, rather than the weak teams, I enjoy a good blow out sometimes. Plenty of popular competitions have weaker teams (like top 14 for instance).

 

[Larksea]

the crazy thing is I think NZ has the potential for a 6th team.

I honestly don't think cutting teams is the answer either. Like if the Force are cut that leaves the whole of western Australia without a super rugby team... Sanzar needs to work with the ARU to get the teams in a better place.

 

[smartcooky]

Honestly in order to compete with NZ we'd have to squeeze the Aussies in to two teams and the Saffers in to three.
I think the problem with SR is how complicated it is, rather than the weak teams, I enjoy a good blow out sometimes. Plenty of popular competitions have weaker teams (like top 14 for instance).

The first thing I would change if some sort of conference system is retained is to do away with the reserved home quarter final. Winning your conference gets you a guaranteed place in the playoffs, but you get ranked along with everyone else and you are seeded accrdingly.

However, the simplest thing to do would be.....


NZL - 5 teams
AUS - 4 teams (cut the Force)
SAF - 5 teams (cut the Kings)
Jaguares
Sunwolves

Total 16 teams... everyone plays everyone else once including 2 byes (17 weeks)
Top 8 to the Quarter Finals with no reserved places
Semis and Final (3 weeks)

Total 20 weeks (exactly the same length as current format)

Its that simple!!!!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Guys, it's important to note that the Rebels are privately owned. For the ARU to get rid of the Rebels, they would have to pay Imperium Group millions or go to court. I doubt Andrew Cox would simply take it on the chin and walk away considering he's invested millions and the ARU don't have the money to bail him out.

So no matter how insignificant rugby is in Melbourne, the Rebels wont be cut.

I like the idea of a 6th NZ team - but where? North Harbour, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Tasman? I would assume North Harbour as they have the stadium but a second team in the Auckland region may not be a good idea.

 

[Makos]

I think player retention is key.

There has been a void left by the fringe internationals and senior players all leaving to play in Europe.

Teams are imbalanced with domestic talent that isn't quite up to standard.

New Zealand has the depth to deal with it, but Australia simply does not, where Union is well down the pecking order.

The Rebels were actually quite good/competitive in chunks of last season because of help from some of the New Zealand players they bought in, the likes of Thompson & Ellison etc. So this could continue to be a good avenue for them to bolster their ranks. I see they recruited Gardner-Bashop who sadly had a terrible opening fixture, but he is a young man & bound to get better. And the idea is there, keep looking to the Mitre 10 Mega Competition to fill the teams since there just isn't the numbers/quality in Australia.

I know it means Australian players missing out on a spot, but it should help raise quality and depth.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I think player retention is key.

There has been a void left by the fringe internationals and senior players all leaving to play in Europe.

Teams are imbalanced with domestic talent that isn't quite up to standard.

New Zealand has the depth to deal with it, but Australia simply does not, where Union is well down the pecking order.

The Rebels were actually quite good/competitive in chunks of last season because of help from some of the New Zealand players they bought in, the likes of Thompson & Ellison etc. So this could continue to be a good avenue for them to bolster their ranks. I see they recruited Gardner-Bashop who sadly had a terrible opening fixture, but he is a young man & bound to get better. And the idea is there, keep looking to the Mitre 10 Mega Competition to fill the teams since there just isn't the numbers/quality in Australia.

I know it means Australian players missing out on a spot, but it should help raise quality and depth.

There's a few promising names in the Aussie conference from the NPC. you've probably seen Wharenui Hawera playing 10 for the Brumbies. Garden-Bachop has had a few shockers but was pretty good in the first half against the Waratahs - alternated at 10 nicely with Debreczeni and things were working well, still not sure how we lost from that position.

I'm happy to see some of these players, the Rebels have done it before with new talent like Woodward and Fuglistaller and experience in Thompson and Ellison.

 

[smartcooky]

Guys, it's important to note that the Rebels are privately owned. For the ARU to get rid of the Rebels, they would have to pay Imperium Group millions or go to court. I doubt Andrew Cox would simply take it on the chin and walk away considering he's invested millions and the ARU don't have the money to bail him out.

So no matter how insignificant rugby is in Melbourne, the Rebels wont be cut.

Scuttlebut is that the Force will be cut

I like the idea of a 6th NZ team - but where? North Harbour, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Tasman? I would assume North Harbour as they have the stadium but a second team in the Auckland region may not be a good idea.

Tasman is too small, and a second franchise in Auckland would be a waste of time and effort. Best bets would be

Taranaki (Longhorns), with King Country, Wanganui, and Manawatu as catchment provinces.

or

Hawkes Bay (Magpies), with Poverty Bay, Bay of Plenty and East Coast as catchment provinces

 

[Car]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to fill up the Aussie teams with players from the Pacific Islands or maybe also other nations? Yes, I know everyone talks about basing a PI team in Auckland, but the Aussie teams need the improvement, even if that means fewer Aussies playing for them. Performing better could also lead to more interest.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The first thing I would change if some sort of conference system is retained is to do away with the reserved home quarter final. Winning your conference gets you a guaranteed place in the playoffs, but you get ranked along with everyone else and you are seeded accrdingly.

However, the simplest thing to do would be.....


NZL - 5 teams
AUS - 4 teams (cut the Force)
SAF - 5 teams (cut the Kings)
Jaguares
Sunwolves

Total 16 teams... everyone plays everyone else once including 2 byes (17 weeks)
Top 8 to the Quarter Finals with no reserved places
Semis and Final (3 weeks)

Total 20 weeks (exactly the same length as current format)

Its that simple!!!!

On paper, this is a no brainer, looks perfect. The only problem i can think of is logistics. Not sure how would that compare to the current miles/travelling time.

Not saying it couldn't work, it's just that this appears to be a big question mark.

 

[Larksea]

I think something has to be done with logistics.

I would limit the number of games a SA team has to do on an NZ/AU away trip to 3, limit the number of games a NZ or AU team does to SA conference teams to 3

I would also keep the kings and force.

I wouldn't be a true full round robin but thats fine... add an extra derby game here and there to fill it out if needed

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

From a long term stand point it would actually be better to cut the Cheetahs than the Kings IMO.

PE has a larger population, better facilities and does produce talent in spades actually. If they can sort out the backroom the potential is there to match the other 'Big 4' SA teams for resources whereas the Cheetahs will ALWAYS be playing catch-up and making do with what they can muster. A lot of players that play for the Cheetahs and Stormers are EP players who move on simply because the region did not have the avenue to go further in the sport than CC div 1. Players likeJohan Goosen, the potgieter bro's, Elton Jantjies, Jan Serfontein, Siya Kolisi.. basically 80% of our rugby players who are black. I can go on and on. Proper support structures and management will see a team capable of more than the Cheetahs will ever be able to do. Big 'if' though getting the necessary in place in the region with the region being a political pawn as the 'home of black rugby'.

Then you would have 5 SA franchizes on a level ITO resources. What we do need is a way to get those 'meat and bones' players back from Europe. The fringe test players to work as the backbone for our teams, something we just do not have ATM as a ton of those players are lost to us. With the 30 cap requirement to play for the Bokke we have already had Steven Kitshoff coming bck next year. I am hoping a guy like Marcell Coetzee who is on 28 caps will also come back. The fact that many of those players are jogging out for other countries doesn't help; WP Nel, CJ Stander, Josh Strauss, Scott Spedding, Rory Kockott etc could all have either bolstered weak spots or added depth over here and it'd have been a lot more tempting to stay in SA if test spots for other countries were't up for grabs. SARU needs to sort out a way to add money to the game here. Those stints in Japan aren't the answer as those players come back overworked and crocked or get crocked 2 matches into the season. I want the game in SA to privatize simply because I don't trust SARU to sort it out.

 

[Car]

Planet Rugby also had a comment that went in that direction:
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/comment-axing-the-kings-far-from-straightforward/

 

[TRF_heineken]

From a long term stand point it would actually be better to cut the Cheetahs than the Kings IMO.

PE has a larger population, better facilities and does produce talent in spades actually. If they can sort out the backroom the potential is there to match the other 'Big 4' SA teams for resources whereas the Cheetahs will ALWAYS be playing catch-up and making do with what they can muster. A lot of players that play for the Cheetahs and Stormers are EP players who move on simply because the region did not have the avenue to go further in the sport than CC div 1. Players likeJohan Goosen, the potgieter bro's, Elton Jantjies, Jan Serfontein, Siya Kolisi.. basically 80% of our rugby players who are black. I can go on and on. Proper support structures and management will see a team capable of more than the Cheetahs will ever be able to do. Big 'if' though getting the necessary in place in the region with the region being a political pawn as the 'home of black rugby'.

Then you would have 5 SA franchizes on a level ITO resources. What we do need is a way to get those 'meat and bones' players back from Europe. The fringe test players to work as the backbone for our teams, something we just do not have ATM as a ton of those players are lost to us. With the 30 cap requirement to play for the Bokke we have already had Steven Kitshoff coming bck next year. I am hoping a guy like Marcell Coetzee who is on 28 caps will also come back. The fact that many of those players are jogging out for other countries doesn't help; WP Nel, CJ Stander, Josh Strauss, Scott Spedding, Rory Kockott etc could all have either bolstered weak spots or added depth over here and it'd have been a lot more tempting to stay in SA if test spots for other countries were't up for grabs. SARU needs to sort out a way to add money to the game here. Those stints in Japan aren't the answer as those players come back overworked and crocked or get crocked 2 matches into the season. I want the game in SA to privatize simply because I don't trust SARU to sort it out.

Sorry but, the Cheetahs earned their spot. And if we start naming players from the Cheetahs region playing for other franchises, the list would be too long to mention. Grey Bloem is one of the schools who at a consistent basis provides Springbok players.

If we look at attendance, then Bloem and PE is nearly in the same boat, although, there has been a lot more bums in seat in Bloem this year after their Currie Cup Success.

If we look at sponsors, then the Cheetahs are also in a better position, in that they have a big sponsorship agreement with Toyota, who also has a deal with the Japanese Rugby Union, and some japanese players have even run out for the Cheetahs. That is at at least 2 votes that will be against the vote to remove the Cheetahs.

Everything we can say about the Kings, we can say about the Cheetahs. But the simple fact is both these areas are struggling, but the Cheetahs have managed to play better rugby and be more competitive than the Kings. On a financial standpoint, the Cheetahs have been fulfilling their obligations, whereas the Kings haven't.

 

[galumay]

Its a dilemma because the marketers that run the game will never allow the Super competition to be deconstructed in the way it should be. We should go back to Super 12 and get rid of 2 teams in SA and 1 in Australia and NZ as well as the SunWolves & Jaguares. Personally I would combine the Tahs and the Brumbies to keep some geographic spread of the game.

The other option that could work is a split league with relegation and promotion, but the problem is you would have 5 NZ sides and maybe 1 from Aus, 1 from SA and 1 other in the top level, and everything thats left in the bottom!

The present conference system is just insane and makes a laughing stock of our great game.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

When it goes back to 15 teams I reckon they should just scrap all that conference crap and go back to everyone plays everyone once and the top 4 or 6 teams go through to the playoffs, based solely off of where they finish in the ladder. Even if it means NZ teams will dominate, at least it'll be an even playing field again.