Crowd Watch

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Mar 19 2009, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Mar 18 2009, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In NZ we have relatively low populations. A place like Dunedin only has 100,000 and the Warratahs have 4 million in their home city. That's definately a major factor. Another reason is that we have lost a lot of good players overseas so our depth isn't as high as it could be. The real reason, however, is that people are bored sick of Super 14. Really, the competition hasn't been good for NZ rugby. People have rugby for 10 months over the year which is too much and the Super 14 has lost it's special element. I think it just shows that NZ can't continue with the Super 14 format.[/b]

Well I see the overall problem as one where there is too much competition. NZ cannot afford to run both NPC and Super14 which is why I think the NPC needs to be scrapped... there is all the history and all that other stuff that must be taken into consideration but I believe the NPC needs to be turned into a purely amateur competition or make it an age grade competition.

In Canada we have the Canadian Hockey League which is our national championship but its age grade 16 to 21 and it acts as a feeder to the professional league. I see the NPC acting in this regard.
[/b][/quote]
One idea put foward was to replace the five franchises with the five main provinces. The other provinces could then compete in the Air NZ Cup which would run at the same time as the Super 14. I sort of like the idea and I think crowds increase.

Long term, I can see all our best players playing offshoreand they will be allowed to play for the All Blacks. I don't know if we will actually have a high quality domestic competition for ever.

 

[tommowins]

I'm sticking to my guns about lack of city spirit and TV rights. However the idea above might not be that bad, you could add the heartland teams to the NPC minor comp.

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 20 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm sticking to my guns about lack of city spirit and TV rights. However the idea above might not be that bad, you could add the heartland teams to the NPC minor comp.[/b]

The thing is crowds used to be a lot better. In Wellington we used to average about 26,000 five years ago and would sell out the stadium for te big games involving the Crusaders, Blues and Warratahs. Now we average about half that. I can't see city spirit halving in 5 years and TV rights haven't changed. While those two points you raised may contribute to other franchises they don't explain the big decrease in crowds.

 

[tommowins]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Mar 21 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 20 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sticking to my guns about lack of city spirit and TV rights. However the idea above might not be that bad, you could add the heartland teams to the NPC minor comp.[/b]

The thing is crowds used to be a lot better. In Wellington we used to average about 26,000 five years ago and would sell out the stadium for te big games involving the Crusaders, Blues and Warratahs. Now we average about half that. I can't see city spirit halving in 5 years and TV rights haven't changed. While those two points you raised may contribute to other franchises they don't explain the big decrease in crowds.
[/b][/quote]
Fair point.

Does anyone else have any suggestions about why the New Zealand and Australian crowds are decreasing (Australian crowds are decreasing aren't they?).

 

[QLD]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 21 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Mar 21 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 20 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sticking to my guns about lack of city spirit and TV rights. However the idea above might not be that bad, you could add the heartland teams to the NPC minor comp.[/b]

The thing is crowds used to be a lot better. In Wellington we used to average about 26,000 five years ago and would sell out the stadium for te big games involving the Crusaders, Blues and Warratahs. Now we average about half that. I can't see city spirit halving in 5 years and TV rights haven't changed. While those two points you raised may contribute to other franchises they don't explain the big decrease in crowds.
[/b][/quote]
Fair point.

Does anyone else have any suggestions about why the New Zealand and Australian crowds are decreasing (Australian crowds are decreasing aren't they?).
[/b][/quote]

They are.

Reds: We've been crap for years, and everyone loves to support a winning side. The Brisbane Broncos rugby league team are the most succesful team in the NRL and have some quality players which attract bigger crowds than the Reds. They will average 35,000 this season across 12 games, while Reds might be lucky to a 20,000 average over 6 games this year. Crowds might go up next week after beating the Sharks in good fashion, but I think people aren't interested in watching South African teams after a while. I could be wrong.

Waratahs: Sydney crowds are **** for any sport, domestic or international. The Waratahs only got 14,000 tonight and only 28,000 against the Reds. Cant blame them though, they are as boring as bat **** to watch. Competing with 9 NRL teams in Sydney doesn't help.

Brumbies: Traditionally always get good crowds around 15,000-20,000. Being a successful team has helped. Double than what the Canberra Raiders RL team get so nothing wrong there.

Force: Got astonishing crowds initially around 25,000 for a new team in AFL heartland, but have dropped dramatically because Perth fans are sick of watching it at Subiaco (an AFL stadium, terrible to watch any sport at let alone rugby). Moving to MES (A rectangle stadium) next year will be a lot better for the Force, got 18,000 for a trial against the Crusaders.

Crowds will always struggle with RL and AFL dominating union domestically in Australia.

 

[up'n'under]

First off, what do you guys mean by pay tv? Do you mean basic satellite/cable or do you mean premium channels like HBO, Setanta or ppv are here in the USA? Also I don't get the whole making the season longer argument.If people are responding "wow this sucks and is boring" why would it be a good idea to give them more of that same product and just dilute it even more?

 

[frntline]

Just putting this out there i believe that the pay TV channels is your biggest problem cause that's the reason why America doesn't love rugby is cause people don't get to see it on TV normally unless you pay for the extra channel. But then if we look at American Football the NFL's worst team Detroit Lions who went 0-16 had and AVG of 54,497 at each home game while the Washington Redskins had an AVG of 88,604 fans at each home game. And you can watch American football every week live on basic cable tv.

 

[Boggle]

I'm not sure how it works exactly in AUS and NZ, but we basically have 4 basic television channels for free (apart from having to pay for your TV license every year), pay TV would be Mnet or DSTV (our satellite television service, which includes Mnet).

in this country nothing good -ever- gets onto the free channels, they do get some good shows or movies a couple of years later though, but that's about it, if you want anything decent to watch in SA you own DSTV, that's just how it works.

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frntline @ Mar 26 2009, 05:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just putting this out there i believe that the pay TV channels is your biggest problem cause that's the reason why America doesn't love rugby is cause people don't get to see it on TV normally unless you pay for the extra channel. But then if we look at American Football the NFL's worst team Detroit Lions who went 0-16 had and AVG of 54,497 at each home game while the Washington Redskins had an AVG of 88,604 fans at each home game. And you can watch American football every week live on basic cable tv.[/b]

But how does those crowd numbers relate to the actual population of those American cities?

Also, the NFL doesn't have to compete with 3 other major brands of football.

AFL games in Australia get ridiculously high turnouts on a regular basis.

 

[QLD]

21,000 for the Queensland Reds game.

 

[William18]

Anyone know what the crowd was in Palmerston North? Apparently it was pretty decent.

 

[Flux]

I think New Zealand is still suffering from the Rugby World Cup. It might seem stupid to say this two years on, but it really is the type of fans we as a New Zealand public are.

When our teams are successful, especially if we're not expecting them to be, we will turn up and support them. But if they've been successful for a large period of time, i.e the Crusaders, fans get complacent and don't show up for matches. This was echoed by the All Blacks' end of year tour. It was expected that the All Blacks would spank everyone up there so viewing numbers were down from previous years.

It's all good and well to say 'we're bored' but I can't understand how Hurricanes and Chiefs fans can be bored when they still haven't won the Super 14 competition, yet have all the talent to do so. You don't hear the same coming from those up north, even if they get largely the same year in, year out too.

The fact is, a lot of New Zealand sports fans suck. Complacent when winning, absolute buggers to have around when losing. I think a lot fail to be proud of their team, no matter what the result. It shouldn't take one bad result by the All Blacks for everyone to give up on them.

In saying that, not all fans are like this. But I think a large majority of New Zealanders are (from what I can tell). There's just not the same passion down here is there up in the NH.

 

[tommowins]

What's the atmosphere like in everyones games when they go to see it live. Are people actually supporting and the focus is really on your team winning or does no-one care/no atmosphere at all?

 

[Flux]

All I can say about the matches in New Plymouth that I've been to is that atmosphere is pretty poor. I went to the match against Aus in Auckland last year and it was far better. There was actually a buzz around the crowd and all that, but who knows what it would have been like if the All Blacks had have got their asses handed to them again.

For all the stick that Aucklanders used to or seem to get, they seem to be some of the better supporters in New Zealand at the moment. Eden Park was close to selling out last year vs the Hurricanes, wasn't it?

 

[tommowins]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flux @ Mar 29 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

All I can say about the matches in New Plymouth that I've been to is that atmosphere is pretty poor. I went to the match against Aus in Auckland last year and it was far better. There was actually a buzz around the crowd and all that, but who knows what it would have been like if the All Blacks had have got their asses handed to them again.

For all the stick that Aucklanders used to or seem to get, they seem to be some of the better supporters in New Zealand at the moment. Eden Park was close to selling out last year vs the Hurricanes, wasn't it?[/b]

I suppose you mean the All Blacks vs. Samoa match? Yes I agree with that, but its a bit hard to yell as if it really matters when your team scores a try and the scoreline moves from 79-0 to 86-0.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Could the fact that European teams are hoovering up so much talent from NZ and Oz have something to do with lower attendences at games?

 

[Flux]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 29 2009, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flux @ Mar 29 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All I can say about the matches in New Plymouth that I've been to is that atmosphere is pretty poor. I went to the match against Aus in Auckland last year and it was far better. There was actually a buzz around the crowd and all that, but who knows what it would have been like if the All Blacks had have got their asses handed to them again.

For all the stick that Aucklanders used to or seem to get, they seem to be some of the better supporters in New Zealand at the moment. Eden Park was close to selling out last year vs the Hurricanes, wasn't it?[/b]

I suppose you mean the All Blacks vs. Samoa match? Yes I agree with that, but its a bit hard to yell as if it really matters when your team scores a try and the scoreline moves from 79-0 to 86-0.
[/b][/quote]

And the Hurricanes match this year along with the Taranaki matches I have been to (although I must admit I haven't been to a Taranaki match in a while now). I also went to the All Golds vs the NZ Maori league match, but I'm not sure if that really counts, as league fans and union fans aren't always the same.

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tommowins @ Mar 29 2009, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What's the atmosphere like in everyones games when they go to see it live. Are people actually supporting and the focus is really on your team winning or does no-one care/no atmosphere at all?[/b]

I go to Wellington phoenix games who may get half the rugby crowds by the crowd is 5 times as loud. In saying that, if there is 34,500 at the cake tin atmosphere is good. Atmosphere is alright normally. Not much chanting but the crowd does go there to watch the game. Most of the fair weather fans don't turn up any more.