[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59873833.amp

Big fan of Macron and I back this. Extremely political move but a precedent for the social exclusion of those going against public health advice is only a good thing when the number of people refusing to vaccinate against more dangerous diseases than covid and putting children at a greater risk is growing.

I think it will have the opposite effect tbh - the more the gov are seen to be acting like tyrants, the more the public will push back over time

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I've read/ heard plenty who assume future variants will become milder. We also still don't know if Omicron is inherently "milder" (WHO disagree it should be classed as such) or the decreased severity/hospitalisation is due to the already existing immunity from vaccination and previous natural infection. This is because it is such a new variant and the data is ongoing. Immunity from both will wane over time,

Also, Covid is still a bigger killer than flu in terms of mortality and its knock on effects on society. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/uk-covid-death-toll-ons

At what point do we say it is now beneficial to be infected naturally so that each time we catch it it does become milder due to the level of immunity in our population. Because basically whether it is milder depends on our individual and general population's level of immunity. That question hasn't been asked as far as I know in a safe controlled way. For me that means no longer wearing an FFP2 mask in congregate indoor/outdoor settings.

Annual shots - yes a combined flu/Covid booster each winter would be my guess. But those not vulnerable may have to pay for this.

I think opening Omicron to the community and spreading the virus has to be done in a fair way. The immuno-suppressed and vulnerable have the right to access essential shops (supermarkets and chemists), public services and public transport in a safe way. Continued usage and enforcement of face coverings in those settings would be something I'd propose for 2022 and potentially beyond. Folk have been so glued to 24hr news that there will be a lot of anxiety around the elderly in particular that I think we need stepping stone measures to help give them reassurance to re-engage with society and the economy.

From spring I'd let it spread unbridled in all leisure settings (indoor and outdoor) and schools (with the latter being ventilated) even if that means folk like me might have to think twice about pursuits they enjoy like live music indoors. Omicron is so transmissible that the above should be sufficient to enable a fairly safe attempt at 'herd immunity' prior to winter 2022. I'm a massive fan of Covid passports but think they will be redundant as a tool in the northern hemisphere by April.

If the above went well then I'd look at removing all requirement for face coverings in 2023 and making it a personal choice, as has been typical among young and old pre-Covid in places like Japan and Korea. Even if wearing a mask doesn't particularly help the individual wearing it, it does provide a visual cue to the reasonable that this individual would like their personal space respected where possible.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think it will have the opposite effect tbh - the more the gov are seen to be acting like tyrants, the more the public will push back over time

I don't really think so. It's stopping people who haven't followed public health guidelines from socialising in public areas and risking the health of others.

It's closer to not letting unlicensed drivers drive a car than it is punishing society for minor indiscretions. In a country with a 90% uptake and the likelihood that the covid vaccine will become regular shot I don't see measures like this resulting in anyone turning into anti-vaxxers and changing their vote accordingly.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I don't really think so. It's stopping people who haven't followed public health guidelines from socialising in public areas and risking the health of others.

It's closer to not letting unlicensed drivers drive a car than it is punishing society for minor indiscretions. In a country with a 90% uptake and the likelihood that the covid vaccine will become regular shot I don't see measures like this resulting in anyone turning into anti-vaxxers and changing their vote accordingly.

It depends on the definition I suppose. If it includes boosters, it'll be harder to keep public opinion onside than the initial 2 shots.

It's not about being an anti vaxxer tho is it, it's about the role of gov and what counts as over reach

 

[Yulia]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59873833.amp

Big fan of Macron and I back this. Extremely political move but a precedent for the social exclusion of those going against public health advice is only a good thing when the number of people refusing to vaccinate against more dangerous diseases than covid and putting children at a greater risk is growing.

Also heard it, pretty vulgar but very French I'd say I agree with him. Maybe a political move. I think he also fed up with anti-vaxxers that's why he said it..more I meet anti-vaxxers,more I think of a mandatory vaccination, although personally I was against it at the beginning

Novak Djokovic is a divisive figure even in the tennis world despite being a brilliant player who could go down as the best in terms of stats. FYI there was a former Czech player called Jiří Novák. Maybe that's where you got confused?

No, I think it's because of Nowak- Polish last name. So,for me Novak sounds more like a last name rather than a first name

Here in the UK we have this with the whole
10 Downing Street parties during the first lockdown and also 2020 Xmas. The whole "one rule for them, one rule for the rest" and just feeds into feelings of unfair application of rules. I think generally people do follow them if they know why they need to be created and can see that it is applied fairly.

Yes, I see.
Yes, rules should work for everyone,not only for us "mere mortals". Me,who has 2 citizenships, I had problems with crossing borders of those countries where I'm actually a citizen, meantime some Russian politicians travel where they want without any problem during pandemic..and I ask myself how it is possible, if they don't have foreign citizenships/resident cards (because it's prohibited for them according to the law),hmm!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think the problem with facemasks is that we started off on the wrong foot that they just protect the wearer especially in the west and then they have become politicised. Now we have more evidence of effectiveness of FFP2/KN95/N95 masks (the differing naming does not help) should protect both wearer and those around you. Hence I personally advocate their use, and if no one else wears them then I know I have protected myself as much I can even if my booster is waning.

This study has not yet been peer reviewed but shows how the virus is most likely transmitted in short range. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ty-to-infect-within-five-minutes-in-air-study

There's also an argument now to wear them outdoors in cities as long we keep using petrol/diesel engines to filter out pollutants. Pre-Covid this was not much thought of, but now going forward and better quality mask wearing this could be used as a way to reduce respiratory diseases, as we get used to wearing them. Hence why it is important to wear them in schools to start them off young and form part of eduction.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think the problem with facemasks is that we started off on the wrong foot that they just protect the wearer especially in the west and then they have become politicised. Now we have more evidence of effectiveness of FFP2/KN95/N95 masks (the differing naming does not help) should protect both wearer and those around you. Hence I personally advocate their use, and if no one else wears them then I know I have protected myself as much I can even if my booster is waning.

This study has not yet been peer reviewed but shows how the virus is most likely transmitted in short range. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ty-to-infect-within-five-minutes-in-air-study

There's also an argument now to wear them outdoors in cities as long we keep using petrol/diesel engines to filter out pollutants. Pre-Covid this was not much thought of, but now going forward and better quality mask wearing this could be used as a way to reduce respiratory diseases, as we get used to wearing them. Hence why it is important to wear them in schools to start them off young and form part of eduction.

I know the police up here are given specific guidance to wear the more robust FFP2 option when dealing with individuals at a higher risk of wilfully infecting them, but can revert to more basic surgical masks after that. The fact there is even this difference indicates they are sympathetic to your viewpoint that choice of mask can impact on your chance of catching it. Personally, in situations where there is any realistic risk of infection (in either direction) I've always worn the FFP2. They are way more reusable than advertised if you are only using them for 5-10 mins at a time to nip into a shop or drive a fairly short distance.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

There's also an argument now to wear them outdoors in cities as long we keep using petrol/diesel engines to filter out pollutants. Pre-Covid this was not much thought of, but now going forward and better quality mask wearing this could be used as a way to reduce respiratory diseases, as we get used to wearing them. Hence why it is important to wear them in schools to start them off young and form part of eduction.

Ah yessss indoctrination lovely.

Mask wearing is super damaging in educational settings, especially for young people.

Stop being a hypochondriac and chill out a little

 

[Kiwiwomble]

but one situation where masks causes issues doesn't negate how useful they might be elsewhere

We had the horrific bush fires here in aus in jan and feb 2020 and so i had a box of N95 masks at home when COVID kicked off....because we had to wear them walking too and from work, air quality was at extreemly dangerous levels

There are situations where wearing a mask might be very good for you, i know i can see myself carrying one for the foreseeable, public transport for example

edit: i really think one of the worst things the human race does currently is sacrifice the "good" because its not "great", people passing off the vaccine for only being 70% effective (cant remember the actual numbers)...not worth doing if its not 100% apparently, had this debate the other day with some who had read masks become less effective after 20-30mins as they become damp...so why bother....because they are bloody effective for those 20mins and thats better than nothing!

not everything is or needs to be a silver bullet

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Novak Djokovic admits breaking isolation while Covid positive

As Australia decides on his deportation, Djokovic claims his agent simply "ticked the wrong box".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Reiser99]

Again I'll keep it simple. If he wasn't famous and didn't have lots of money, he'd have been deported long ago.

He doesn't deserve special treatment.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Also on FFP2 masks going forward I can see guidance changing for those who test positive but asymptomatic to be encouraged to wear them to self isolate even shorter than 7 days, especially for key workers.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Again I'll keep it simple. If he wasn't famous and didn't have lots of money, he'd have been deported long ago.

He doesn't deserve special treatment.

Definitely. Renata Voracova being the prime other example of this. I read she is now suing tennis Australia.

I think him admitting he was positive and still going out and putting the blame on his agent for lying on his immigration form is just a PR exercise to try and limit the damage to his reputation.

Still no decision from this Alex Hawke today. Looks like he's taking his time to ensure any cancellation is on sound legal basis and limits any political fallout. But again he could choose not to exercise his power.

But then he should explain the legal basis of why he is not - even if he is saying Novak is no longer infectious/danger to Australian public. Maybe come to an agreement with Novak of daily LFT tests and producing negative results as a condition to not cancel his visa. Still doesn't make the original decision to cancel his visa not right. But would mean changing government guidance for overseas (non Australian residents).

I think at this point the Australian Government
Also want to save as well face, what with being election year.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Omicron: Has the winter wave peaked already?

Cases are falling and hospital admissions appear to be plateauing - has the UK weathered this wave?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Usual sparring between Rand Paul and Faucci. It really is staggering the mental gymnastics they tie themselves into... Getting the virus is "nature's vaccine", er wot? Talk about double speak. I can't understand how they oppose pretty much everything he proposes and advocate the disease sweeping through the nations whilst also criticising the fact the disease has been sweeping through the nation because not enough has been done to stop it...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Usual sparring between Rand Paul and Faucci. It really is staggering the mental gymnastics they tie themselves into... Getting the virus is "nature's vaccine", er wot? Talk about double speak. I can't understand how they oppose pretty much everything he proposes and advocate the disease sweeping through the nations whilst also criticising the fact the disease has been sweeping through the nation because not enough has been done to stop it...

Answer: don't try and rationalise the reasoning of a political troll like Rand Paul. It'll give you a migraine.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

This is the first real world take on my prediction that health support for the unvaccinated for Covid-19 related conditions may become a political stance. Albeit, it is a more ethical alternative of simply raising an additional health tax on the wilfully unvaccinated.

No vax, pay tax, says Canada's Quebec as health system struggles

Quebec, Canada's second most populous province, is planning to force adults refusing to get COVID-19 vaccinated pay a "health contribution" in a move likely to spur a debate about individual rights and social responsibility.

www.reuters.com

Fully approve of this alternative take but as ever, think Omicron will all be far less of a public health concern long before such a policy could be implemented. Quebec election is October 2022, so again this could be some perfectly legitimate Macron style electioneering before Omicron reduces the potential for 'talking tough' on Covid restrictions.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Novak Djokovic admits breaking isolation while Covid positive

As Australia decides on his deportation, Djokovic claims his agent simply "ticked the wrong box".

www.bbc.co.uk

So his agent made a "mistake" it seems. Looks more like just outright lying by Djokovic. Also there is a suggestion he was at a public event while he was known to have tested positive. Regardless of how the Australia government have acted, he is coming out of this looking like quite a ****.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well he better be sacking his agent as that is a big mistake.

He's in the AO draw. But it means nothing until this immigration minister makes a decision. But yeh his reputation has taken a major hit regardless. Going to an event where children were and in close proximity to them and all maskless and probably knowing he was infectious.

We know he didn't bother telling L'Equipe journalists that he had tested positive where he attended a photoshoot. This from a guy happy to rub salt in Australians that he had got a medical exemption and was going to Australia.

 

[Bada-Bing!]