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[COVID-19] General Discussion

IIRC Trump was singing the praises of Hydroxychloroquine as protection from getting Covid and even claimed he was taking it before he caught it. Before of course the vaccines were approved and available

Same kind of idiotic thinking with this Ivermectin post availability of vaccine ie. quick unproven fix. All this to avoid getting the vaccine by anti vaxxers. . And these are the Same peeps complaining that the vaccines are the equivalent of putting poison in the bodies :rolleyes:.
 
So with transmission likely to rocket next month with return to school and waning immunity from vaccines, we have a choice of either catching naturally or continue wearing masks in certain places (where we can't socially distance ie a lot of places indoors and in unventilated buildings, crowded outdoors Etc).

So wearing of masks has been controversial. Reported to slow spread by between 10% to 25%. But this depends on all people wearing masks, the type of mask and wearing them properly. We've been told they are there to protect others rather than the wearer themselves, ie to catch droplets from the wearer when they cough, speak, shout etc. But Generally these are cloth masks.

But this doesn't take into account masks which have a FFP rating which have a higher degree of protection got filtering for the wearer. Ie those worm for PPE and medical staff.

We were told last year not to get these because they didn't want lay people to stop hospital staff and care givers from sourcing this equipment. But now FFP masks are quite prevalent - and cost effective. I managed to get 50 for like 31p each.

Is it time for Govt recommend people start wearing higher grade FFP masks out and about and indoors this autumn/winter? The incentive that they protect the wearer by filtering the inflow which cloth masks don't, whilst we wait for if further boosters will be required.

If peeps refuse to wear them, then at least those who want to and protect themselves further can. Kind of sick and tired personally of wearing masks for the benefit of other people who don't wear it themselves.
 
Is it time for Govt recommend people start wearing higher grade FFP masks out and about and indoors this autumn/winter? The incentive that they protect the wearer by filtering the inflow which cloth masks don't, whilst we wait for if further boosters will be required.
I read something last night that chimed with me, suggesting that the government are repeating the mistakes of Eat Out To Help Out about this time last year. I.e. seeking to normalise dangerous behaviour for the benefit of the economy, ignoring the long term cost of this strategy. Even if this isn't true, masks are such a thorny issue, that there's no way they are going to even advise any kind of mask wearing again until it is already clear that the sky is falling in again.

I would also advocate mandating the use of technology to monitor air quality inside public buildings (it's 2021 - we can do better than suggesting opening a window and hoping for the best) and updating the self isolation requirements to reflect the symptoms of the current variant rather than using year+ guidance created for a variant that has long since been superceded. Both of these things would save lives but would mean enduring short term pain to avoid it in the medium to long term, so again, won't happen until it is too late.
 
I read something last night that chimed with me, suggesting that the government are repeating the mistakes of Eat Out To Help Out about this time last year. I.e. seeking to normalise dangerous behaviour for the benefit of the economy, ignoring the long term cost of this strategy. Even if this isn't true, masks are such a thorny issue, that there's no way they are going to even advise any kind of mask wearing again until it is already clear that the sky is falling in again.

I would also advocate mandating the use of technology to monitor air quality inside public buildings (it's 2021 - we can do better than suggesting opening a window and hoping for the best) and updating the self isolation requirements to reflect the symptoms of the current variant rather than using year+ guidance created for a variant that has long since been superceded. Both of these things would save lives but would mean enduring short term pain to avoid it in the medium to long term, so again, won't happen until it is too late.
I raised this point about ventilation with the firm I work for. All we have been told is that the fresh air has been ramped up and we should notice it. All I have noticed is the air con blowing colder. Our office building doesn't have windows, well not in the section I work in. But getting our firm, and I am sure most firms to comply with ventilating buildings properly is going to cost them and not many are going to comply if it costs them too much and starts eating into profits. They should I read being pumping in 10 litres of fresh air per second per person in the building.

So, yes I agree if this Government isn't going to recommend, then I will personally take matters in my own hands in terms of mask wearing, and which ones I will wear and when.
 
it really is fascinating the different approaches around the world, we have far less cases in Aus than the UK for example but, at least in victoria, masks are compulsory everywhere outside your home, lots take the **** obviously but its still the directive, it really is suc a small sacrifice that even 10%-25% reduction in the spread is worth it
 
it really is fascinating the different approaches around the world, we have far less cases in Aus than the UK for example but, at least in victoria, masks are compulsory everywhere outside your home, lots take the **** obviously but its still the directive, it really is suc a small sacrifice that even 10%-25% reduction in the spread is worth it

True but you also have to factor in other approaches as well.
Population density will be a big one.

Also isn't Aus at nearly double their daily covid peak than the previous one?
Aus is also at a below 30% fully vaccinated, compare to UK 64%
 
Australia's daily cases are circa. 1000 compared to UK's in excess of 30,000 daily. But it is the seriousness of the cases here much better thanks to the vaccines.

But Here it just ticked to almost 950 hospitalisations daily. So approaching 1000 daily with averaging of 100 deaths a day; so broadly if we keep up this rate we're looking at 36,500 deaths annual and likely higher when we hit Autumn/winter and factor in Flu without mitigation.
 
Are our hospitalisations mostly unvaxxed?

It's becoming more difficult to see an end to this with cases, hospitalisations and deaths rising, while we've also got one of the highest vaccinations percentages in the world

What's the end goal? Hope it dies down enough to become like the annual flu wave? Except year round and effecting all ages and for far longer (don't think long-flu is a thing?)
 
Are our hospitalisations mostly unvaxxed?

It's becoming more difficult to see an end to this with cases, hospitalisations and deaths rising, while we've also got one of the highest vaccinations percentages in the world

What's the end goal? Hope it dies down enough to become like the annual flu wave? Except year round and effecting all ages and for far longer (don't think long-flu is a thing?)

In UK it looks like a mixture of unvaxxed and even double vaxxed. But the vaxxed are in the older age range where their immunity will be slightly weaker even with the vaccination. Also factor in the waning after 6 months.

And yes, we somehow have to live with it. Natural infection will be part of it as I understand it. How serious you get the illness is with the being double jabbed from asymptomatic to unpleasant?! Yeh and not serious enough to end up in Hospital, which is the whole point of getting fully vaccinated.
 
I think the most frustrating thing is that among my friends and I is that around April and may we really thought we were going back to normal. We got our vaccinations and figured everyone else would follow suit. We had a couple weeks even living like it was back before the pandemic. Now it's almost stricter than it was before and it's not the government. We are wearing masks all the time not cause we have to, but because we don't want to be dicks. Of course, as soon as you leave the city no ones wearing a mask. Third jab will be coming up in a couple months.
 
Yeh and not serious enough to end up in Hospital, which is the whole point of getting fully vaccinated.
Is that still the case, though?
Hospitalisations way up, and double vaxxed still getting sick

Though I suppose that's the same with flu season - bunch of hospitalisations from that

I dunno, just thinking out loud really - it's just pretty depressing seeing figures going up across the board again
 
Is that still the case, though?
Hospitalisations way up, and double vaxxed still getting sick

Though I suppose that's the same with flu season - bunch of hospitalisations from that

I dunno, just thinking out loud really - it's just pretty depressing seeing figures going up across the board again

The vaccines aren't perfect. Stats are upwards of 90% to stop hospitalisations so yes you are going to get escape via the the 10% who end up in Hospital as it gets so serious. But more unvaxxed end up in hospital than vaxxed here in UK.

In USA I think the figures are mostly
Unvaxxed ending up in Hospital. But at much worse rates.

It's all relative at the end of the day.
 
it really is fascinating the different approaches around the world, we have far less cases in Aus than the UK for example but, at least in victoria, masks are compulsory everywhere outside your home, lots take the **** obviously but its still the directive, it really is suc a small sacrifice that even 10%-25% reduction in the spread is worth it
I think the UK government is happy with 30k cases a day. Everything is open here now and I really don't see a point where a lockdown will be imposed. I do wish masks was compulsory, even if its only to protect the people working in supermarkets etc
 
True but you also have to factor in other approaches as well.
Population density will be a big one.

Also isn't Aus at nearly double their daily covid peak than the previous one?
Aus is also at a below 30% fully vaccinated, compare to UK 64%
all true but masks have been compulsory on things like public transport since the first wave last year, and everywhere outside your home since we hit about 10 cases a day in this outbreak

the population density issues is negligible, yes the over all population is smaller but we're not all spread out evenly over the country, melbourne and sydney have terraces, housing estates and apartment buildings just like london, in fact my house he is smaller than the one i was able to rent in london

I said the other day i would be happy if something were carried over to a post COVID world
  • masks on public transport
  • leave the marks on the ground for ques....people got way too close before
  • and capacity limits, when we did open up, we still only had 75-80% capacity in things like pubs a cafes....and it was much more enjoyable, really made it obvious how much they crammed us in before
 
all true but masks have been compulsory on things like public transport since the first wave last year, and everywhere outside your home since we hit about 10 cases a day in this outbreak

the population density issues is negligible, yes the over all population is smaller but we're not all spread out evenly over the country, melbourne and sydney have terraces, housing estates and apartment buildings just like london, in fact my house he is smaller than the one i was able to rent in london

I said the other day i would be happy if something were carried over to a post COVID world
  • masks on public transport
  • leave the marks on the ground for ques....people got way too close before
  • and capacity limits, when we did open up, we still only had 75-80% capacity in things like pubs a cafes....and it was much more enjoyable, really made it obvious how much they crammed us in before

London has a pop density of 5,701 people per square kilometre
Sydney is 1,900 per km2
Melbourne is 2,037 per km2
 
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