Cnapan: The true origins of Rugby?

[dullonien]

Thought some people here might be interested in learning about the ancient game of cnapan, played in Wales as far back as Middle Ages, predominantly in West Wales.

Here's the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnapan

It bares some loose similarities to rugby, with some form of 'forwards' and 'backs', some missive pile ups aking to scrums, and a toss up of the ball aking to lineouts. Of course there are some massive differences, teams up to 1,000 were common in some popular areas such as Ceredigion and Pembrokshire. The ball used was a greased up solid piece of wood, to make it difficult for players to keep hold of the ball. There was often no real goal or try lines, instead the game was stopped once the ball had travelled several miles into the opposition parish or it simply got dark.

I'd heard of the sport before, but never really looked into how it was played etc. Sounds like a brutal sport in its original format.

Edit: another interesting article: http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/originsofrugby.htm

Many other similar sports were being played throughout the UK during the middle ages. Quite interesting.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Ah yes heard of this beauty whilst studying Sports History.

In Ceredigion was commonly played in Llandysul or more known to have been.

Remember going on a school trip in primary school around the area and remember a teacher telling us about Cnapan and its origins in Llandysul. Saying it was played there and that one of the goalines was to cross the parish gates and score the ball past it. It was usually played between Parishes and the goaline areas were of course the church gates. As Dull said it involved the entire village and it was brutal, games would last from early morning till the light had faded and tackling was often high.

http://www.postaprint.co.uk

RUGBY FOOTBALL - THE UNIVSERITIES v LONDON AND THE SOUTH AT RICHMOND. An excellent double page, one of the earliest engravings of Rugger. Scare: From the Illustrated Sporting & Dramatic News. [A ball-game resembling rugby football was a game played by ancient Greeks called episkuros (Greek: επίσκυρος). In Wales such a sport is called cnapan or "criapan," and has medieval roots. The old Irish predecessor of rugby may be caid. The Cornish called it "hurling to goals" which dates back to the bronze age, the West country called it "hurling over country" (neither should to be confused with Gaelic hurling in which the ball is hit with a stick called a hurley or hurl, not carried), East Anglians "Campball", the French "La Soule" or "Chole" (a rough-and-tumble cross-country game). English villages were certainly playing games of 'fute ball' during the 1100s. English boarding schools would certainly have developed their own variants of this game as soon as they were established - the Eton Wall Game being one example.
The invention of 'Rugby' was therefore not the act of playing early forms of the game at Rugby School or elsewhere but rather the events which led up to its codification.
The game of football which was played at Rugby School between 1750 and 1859 permitted handling of the ball, but no-one was allowed to run with it in their hands towards the opposition's goal. There was no fixed limit to the number of players per side and sometimes there were hundreds taking part in a kind of enormous rolling maul. The innovation of running with the ball was introduced some time between 1859 and 1865. William Webb Ellis has been credited with breaking the local rules by running forwards with the ball in a game in 1823. Shortly after this the Victorian mind turned to establishing written rules for the sports which had earlier just involved local agreements, and boys from Rugby School produced the first written rules for their version of the sport in 1870.
Around this time the influence of Dr Thomas Arnold, Rugby's headmaster, was beginning to be felt around all the other boarding schools, and his emphasis on sport as part of a balanced education naturally encouraged the general adoption of the Rugby rules across the country, and, ultimately, the world.

http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/scans/scans141.htm

 

[Charles]

Probably related; la soule, the french version of this game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_soule

 

[ranger]

The Maori had a similar game in pre european times that i cant quite remember the name of aswell. It was used as a means of keeping the warriors fit and agile incase of battle. They even used to have tribe vs tribe games. Its hella complicated from memory, but the core skills of passing, finding space, tackling and especially evasion were employed in it.

When the europeans came they banned the sport and insisted on Rugby instead, Maori noticed the similarity and took to the sport like ducks to water. There are annecdotes of british men introducing Maori to rugby for the very first time and then being blown away by the ridiculous Maori side steps and inter-passing. There have been feeble attempts to bring the game back but its more of a novelty game that is played tribally on special occasions or in Maori-emersion schools.

Edit: Its called Ki-o-rahi

http://www.kiorahi.co.nz/about.htm

http://history-nz.org/kiorahi_rules.html

 

[gingergenius]

I went to a lecture about community traditions last year, which covered the games of Ba' that take place between or in many British villages, and have been happening for centuries, usually on important annual dates such as Easter Sunday or May Day/ Beltane.

The teams are usually clear cut. There's ones from this village or that village; another common one is 'Uppies' and 'Dounies', whereby the Uppies would come from either the North of the vllage, or the part on higher ground... in other ones there's a distinction between fishermen and Landies... etc etc.

And the aim of Ba'? To get the ba' (ball) from the other team's territory back to the 'hail' in your own territory.

The rules? None at all. Recently it's been known for people to put the ba' in their cars and try to drive it back to the hail. Back in the day, people would use the game as a way of settling scores without retribution.

I'm thinking of going down to Jedburgh to take part in one in 2011, they sound like a lot of fun!

 

[alexrugby]

Thought some people here might be interested in learning about the ancient game of cnapan, played in Wales as far back as Middle Ages, predominantly in West Wales.

Here's the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnapan

It bares some loose similarities to rugby, with some form of 'forwards' and 'backs', some missive pile ups aking to scrums, and a toss up of the ball aking to lineouts. Of course there are some massive differences, teams up to 1,000 were common in some popular areas such as Ceredigion and Pembrokshire. The ball used was a greased up solid piece of wood, to make it difficult for players to keep hold of the ball. There was often no real goal or try lines, instead the game was stopped once the ball had travelled several miles into the opposition parish or it simply got dark.

I'd heard of the sport before, but never really looked into how it was played etc. Sounds like a brutal sport in its original format.

Edit: another interesting article: http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/originsofrugby.htm

Many other similar sports were being played throughout the UK during the middle ages. Quite interesting.

World knows the rugby's origins to have deep roots in Great Britain

Guess Cnapan contributed also, why not ?

 

[alexrugby]

Nice thread buddy, keep posting, it adds more insight into the knowledge of history of great game Rugby

 

[alexrugby]

Also check this topic, a Georgian folk Contact Ball game "Lelo-Burti" (Lelo means Try in Georgian, Burti means Ball)

Georgians played this game for centuries

Very disordered match main objective is to push the opposite team to the limit, and make try or bring Lelo (in Georgian) on their field zone

follow this link for Wikipedia topic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelo_burti

Here you got very old Video about this game, unfortunately narrated in Georgian

here you got image of players

 

[Feicarsinn]

Pfff, it all pales in comparison to the mighty Eton wall game. There hasn't been a goal in a competitive game since 1909!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pfff, it all pales in comparison to the mighty Eton wall game. There hasn't been a goal in a competitive game since 1909!

I remember seeing a picture of Prince Harry or William playing it, and basically getting his face cheese-gratered on the wall

 

[Teh Mite]

Are Gloucester good at rugby because they like to chase a wheel of cheese down a big hill?

 

[Charles]

I prefer this great sport

 

[Seaton]

There is evidence for schoolboys playing a "football" ball game in Aberdeen in 1633 (some references cite 1636) which is notable as an early allusion to what some have considered to be passing the ball. The word "pass" in the most recent translation is derived from "huc percute" (strike it here) and later repercute pilam (strike the ball again) in the original Latin. It is not certain that the ball was being struck between members of the same team. The original word translated as "goal" is metum, literally meaning the "pillar at each end of the circus course" in a Roman chariot race. There is a reference to "get hold of the ball before [another player] does" (Praeripe illi pilam si possis agere) suggesting that handling of the ball was allowed. One sentence states in the original 1930 translation "Throw yourself against him" (Age, objice te illi). It is clear that the game was rough and tackles allowed included the "charging" and pushing/holding of opposing players ("drive that man back" in the original translation, "repelle eum" in original Latin). It has been suggested that this game bears similarities to rugby football.


I'm not citing my source until I come across the actual document upon which my 'soruce' makes these statements