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Climategate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Nov 26 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So that honking big hole in the Ozone isn't caused by pollutants then? Tell that to people get sunburn in Melbourne on cloudy days.

And oh the issues with river systems in Oz aren't to do with irrigation, the use of chemicals or any other activity?

Everyone does realised that "climategate" is a bet up by some tabloid right?

Oz is taking the issue serious, just had a free study of me house down with a number of issues being raised, power consumption, lack of veranda on the western side of the house, and not having water tanks to start with. Should be in line to grab some of that interest free green loan money in the next few weeks.[/b]
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I think this highlights some confusion on the topic which is why so many people think climate change deniers are so stupid.

Jethro is saying what I'm saying: it is blatantly obvious that human activity can have a detrimental effect on the environment.

However, all issues to do with the environment seem to get wrapped up in to one massive ball, and 'climate change' seems to be the nice alliterative moniker that the media, politicians and society have decided to call it.

This is the real problem - because there is so much debate surrounding the validity of the climate change theory (which I feel will go round and round in circles), it causes people not to act. As a result, people are forgetting about the undebateable facts of pollution and o-zone deterioration, which are very much pressing issues. I find that people who decide 'climate change' is bullshit tend to use this as a license to go around acting as if nothing they do will harm the environment.

I'm happy to sit on the fence with regards to the validity of the climate change argument. But what is crystal clear is that we should keep the environment in mind at all times - even if global temperatures and co2 levels don't rise, there is still a hell of a lot of pollution. There is no reason to slack off being environmentally conscious just because climate change is a flaky theory.
 
One thing though, the ozone hole has nothing to do with climate change. different issue
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Nov 26 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So that honking big hole in the Ozone isn't caused by pollutants then? Tell that to people get sunburn in Melbourne on cloudy days.

And oh the issues with river systems in Oz aren't to do with irrigation, the use of chemicals or any other activity?

Everyone does realised that "climategate" is a bet up by some tabloid right?

Oz is taking the issue serious, just had a free study of me house down with a number of issues being raised, power consumption, lack of veranda on the western side of the house, and not having water tanks to start with. Should be in line to grab some of that interest free green loan money in the next few weeks.[/b]
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As others have siad, you're confising the depletion of the Ozone and local contamination with global warming: what I was talking about.

Of course we need to reduce the use of Ozone depleting chemicals such as refridgerants (or at least dispose of them in an evironmentally friendly way). And yes, there are problems with chemicals used on crops etc. getting into rivers.

Neither of those things I was disputing. I was neither disputing the fact that we are quickly running out of fossil fules, that were contaminating the earth will lanfills or that the amount of pollution in places like Beijing is seriously unhealthy. These kinda things need to change. We need to develop renewable sources of creating energy (come on scientists, crack nuclear fusion already!). We need to recycle as much of our waste as possible, something I already do. 3/4 of my households waste now get's recyled, with only 1/4 a bag of unrecyclable waste sent to ladfills a week. Everyone should be doing this, as it's so easy to do.

No matter what my views on the man made global warming side of things are makes little difference. Untill nuclear fusion is up and running, we need to reduce our energy usage. Now, how we go about that is something I feel quite strongly about. On the one hand we have the government telling us to switch out tv's off at the wall, or drive 5miles less per week, blah blah blah blah. On the other hand, I see government buildings lit up throughout the night (including schools etc.), at least twice as many street lamps than is necessary, thousands of miles of lit motorways, my local Morrisons streetlight in the car park left on throughout the day! If were expected to do our part, I expect the same from the government, but I don't see that happening.

Now I know my 'carbon footprint' is already very low, even if I do leave my tv on standby. I don't own a car, I don't fly very often (once in my life back from Paris last year) and I recycle as much as I can.
 
You people just don't listen. I'm talking an ICE AGE.

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/index.p...st&p=423308

Do you know what that would do to the modern world if we plunge back into a similar, miniature Ice Age like that during mediæval times? Utter Chaos. In the Americas we could even see reverse migration where people from the US, start migrating to the more prosperous mexico (in an Ice age, the close you are to the equator, the more agriculturaly successfull you are).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Nov 27 2009, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You people just don't listen. I'm talking an ICE AGE.

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/index.p...st&p=423308

Do you know what that would do to the modern world if we plunge back into a similar, miniature Ice Age like that during mediæval times? Utter Chaos. In the Americas we could even see reverse migration where people from the US, start migrating to the more prosperous mexico (in an Ice age, the close you are to the equator, the more agriculturaly successfull you are).[/b]
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Are you pitching your blockbuster movie idea again?

You're talking about the switch off of the gulf stream, is that right? As far as I understand, it can't happen because the current is driven by the prevailing wind from the Gulf of Mexico to Iceland, and the prevailing wind is set by winds coming off the Pacific and hitting the Rockies, which divert them south through the laws of physics until they hit the gulf and turn northwest. In short, that movement is irreplaceable and is what actually drives the gulf stream. Ice melt in the north Atlantic has nothing to do with it.

So I have read.
 
Chabal could get the gulf stream going again. With the help of Schalk Brits.


In all seriousness though, those apocalyptic events are ones we have little (if any) control over. Short of figuring out ways of capturing carbon emitted from Mt St Helens or Vesuvius and killing all non-human animals we're basically staring down the barrell of a gun.

Money thus needs to go into equipping us for this future which means more efficiency, more nuclear, more electric and more renewables to take advantage of the more volatile weather conditions. Holland for example are investing in bio roofs made out of grass and other materials which can absorb and recycle rainwater to prevent flooding and exhaustion of existing water supplies.
 
I'm not talking about anything as dramatic as seen on film. I'm talking about a relapse into the conditions that caused the Dark Ages. It's extremely plausible with major implications concerning agricultural growth. The vikings went plundering for a reason. Countries like spain flourished. All I'm saying is it could cause some economic upsets that people aren't considering. If North America (Canada and the US) can't produce the food supplies they currently do where will they turn? They will have to look southward towards the warmer Equator. Places like Mexico will benifit from a better weather pattern (basically the one that the breadbasket of the US now has).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_t...ine_circulation
It's an interesting theory, and one, in my mind has roots in historical evidence.
 
But at the same time the harshness and sheer impossibility that the steep changes to how the world works demanded by the Climate Change lobby would end up pushing the world into the Dark Ages either through self-imposed decay or through the inevitable strife and sheer genocide that would result from trying to fit 6 Billion people into a finite number of caves.
 
It's aimed at Prestwick, obviously. I just await the equally funny reaction!
 
I welcome the another mini-ice-age. This unusually pleasant weather we're having here in late November is ******* me off. I don't want a 65°F Christmas Day. I want snow, like they sing about in "Good King Wencuslas"!
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not that simple i'm afraid. Change is occuring much faster than ever before. ever in geological time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Nov 28 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Geological data.[/b]
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You're trained in handling this data, but you only make brief comments.

Please explain it to me like I'm a six year old: how does the information in the OP links about the collection of climate change data not cast doubt on the proper use of scientific method?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Nov 27 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Geological data.[/b]
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Don't you dare hind behind Al Gore.
enviro%20gore.jpg

I have no real problems saying things are speeding up (or more precicely warming up). The ramifications are what I think people need to reconsider.
 
Can't, too lazy, all out of zeal. Something to do with the ratio of some oxyegn isotope with some other one. or some such made up nonsense
 

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