Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

[TRF_stormer2010]

And it would be poetic justice if the Cheetahs were to win it. I know it's not likely, but I'd love to see it happen.

Actually not at all uncommon for them to win the CC. They are actually defending champions. The main reason being they have their full strength squad ready for CC whereas the other teams usually contribute anything from 6 to 9 test players to the national side and have to use the CC as a development tournament for their youngsters as our squads aren't that deep (because we compete for our players against the Euro, Pound and Yen).

Do you not already consider it poetic injustice that the defending Currie cup champions are being kicked out?

Would it be better if it were the Sharks to get the boot?

5 just does not fit into 4 and every which way you cut it someone gets a raw deal. For the bigger picture and looking long term (which is SARU's mandate after all) it HAS to be the Cheetahs.

 

[TRF_heineken]

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So one guy says that and it makes the news?? Seriously?? Of course not everyone will be happy about their team getting the axe. You can't keep everyone happy all the time.

And they are very premature to say things like that, when they don't even know all the details of what happened at the meeting, and what this new tournament they will be involved with consist of, maybe just maybe it would be a better tournament for them.

 

[unrated]

Actually not at all uncommon for them to win the CC. They are actually defending champions. The main reason being they have their full strength squad ready for CC whereas the other teams usually contribute anything from 6 to 9 test players to the national side and have to use the CC as a development tournament for their youngsters as our squads aren't that deep (because we compete for our players against the Euro, Pound and Yen).

Would it be better if it were the Sharks to get the boot?

5 just does not fit into 4 and every which way you cut it someone gets a raw deal. For the bigger picture and looking long term (which is SARU's mandate after all) it HAS to be the Cheetahs.

Well no, I'm a Sharks supporter and would inherently be against it based on bias. Jus like any other team, among them Cheetahs supporters.
The fact that I'm advocating for the Cheetahs as a supporter of a team whose position is secure, snug and cozy should be telling.

Lets look at a map.




Now that the Kings are gone, The Sharks effectively represent both the Bright green and Purple geographical areas. This has been the way in Franchise rugby before the Kings existed. When Super rugby was played and there was no Kings people from the Eastern Cape still wanted to support a team and because of the close links the Sharks came to represent Eastern cape interests when we play Franchise rugby. Ask anyone the Sharks are the best supported team in the Eastern Cape even ahead of the now defunct Kings.

So that is a huge geographical area, very very populous too,

Western Cape in pale green is the Stormers, its Cape Town, they are safe.

Then orange is the Free State and it is represented by the Cheetahs. North West in ivory is also primarily Cheetahs.

The lions share the smallest geographical region with the Bulls in Turqois. I am of the opinion that their supporter base is significantly smaller that the Cheetahs.
Bulls also represent Limpopo in purple probably the second best supported team in SA after Stormers.

For me the decision should have been clear. The lions.

But it has happened now, im chilled and excited for the Sharks. Im not a Cheetahs fan. So looking forward to the Pro 16.
Just wanted to point out the facts that SARU probably erred in kicking the Cheetahs instead of the Lions.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well no, I'm a Sharks supporter and would inherently be against it based on bias. Jus like any other team, among them Cheetahs supporters.
The fact that I'm advocating for the Cheetahs as a supporter of a team whose position is secure, snug and cozy should be telling.

Lets look at a map.


View attachment 8543

Now that the Kings are gone, The Sharks effectively represent both the Bright green and Purple geographical areas. This has been the way in Franchise rugby before the Kings existed. When Super rugby was played and there was no Kings people from the Eastern Cape still wanted to support a team and because of the close links the Sharks came to represent Eastern cape interests when we play Franchise rugby. Ask anyone the Sharks are the best supported team in the Eastern Cape even ahead of the now defunct Kings.

So that is a huge geographical area, very very populous too,

Western Cape in pale green is the Stormers, its Cape Town, they are safe.

Then orange is the Free State and it is represented by the Cheetahs. North West in ivory is also primarily Cheetahs.

The lions share the smallest geographical region with the Bulls in Turqois. I am of the opinion that their supporter base is significantly smaller that the Cheetahs.
Bulls also represent Limpopo in purple probably the second best supported team in SA after Stormers.

For me the decision should have been clear. The lions.

But it has happened now, im chilled and excited for the Sharks. Im not a Cheetahs fan. So looking forward to the Pro 16.
Just wanted to point out the facts that SARU probably erred in kicking the Cheetahs instead of the Lions.

I hear you but teams are not supported by dirt but people and Joburg is 4 times as large as Bloem ITO population and that is just the actual urban area and not counting suburbs etc so Joburg even bigger. I'd also argue the fact that Joburg over Bloem makes it more compact and better connected if we are talking purely geography/infrastructure is actually a good thing.

Cheetahs are everyone's 2nd team for a reason IMO; they play an attractive form of rugby BUT they are not seen as a serious threat. Maybe its just that I am not big on sentiment. I took Newlands getting the boot in lieu of CT stadium also without flinching.

 

[Yulia]

@unrated thanks! That's very informative (especially for people like me who don't know a lot about SA rugby)

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well no, I'm a Sharks supporter and would inherently be against it based on bias. Jus like any other team, among them Cheetahs supporters.
The fact that I'm advocating for the Cheetahs as a supporter of a team whose position is secure, snug and cozy should be telling.

Lets look at a map.


View attachment 8543

Now that the Kings are gone, The Sharks effectively represent both the Bright green and Purple geographical areas. This has been the way in Franchise rugby before the Kings existed. When Super rugby was played and there was no Kings people from the Eastern Cape still wanted to support a team and because of the close links the Sharks came to represent Eastern cape interests when we play Franchise rugby. Ask anyone the Sharks are the best supported team in the Eastern Cape even ahead of the now defunct Kings.

So that is a huge geographical area, very very populous too,

Western Cape in pale green is the Stormers, its Cape Town, they are safe.

Then orange is the Free State and it is represented by the Cheetahs. North West in ivory is also primarily Cheetahs.

The lions share the smallest geographical region with the Bulls in Turqois. I am of the opinion that their supporter base is significantly smaller that the Cheetahs.
Bulls also represent Limpopo in purple probably the second best supported team in SA after Stormers.

For me the decision should have been clear. The lions.

But it has happened now, im chilled and excited for the Sharks. Im not a Cheetahs fan. So looking forward to the Pro 16.
Just wanted to point out the facts that SARU probably erred in kicking the Cheetahs instead of the Lions.

Come on, you can't use geographics as a term of reference.

The Bulls have Mpumalanga and Limpopo according to the schools setup, as well as Potchefstroom in the North-West. The Lions have the southern part of Gauteng as well as some teams in northern Free State, North-West and Mpumalanga.

When we look at universities, we have the Varsity Cup Where the Urban Regions are well represented.

As for the Unions, Boland in the Western Cape, and the Leopards in the North-West have formal agreements with the Bulls, not with WP or Free State or the Lions. The Northern Cape, which represents the Griquas is probably the biggest area in our country, but with the lowest population of all the provinces, and some areas in the Northern Cape is geographically a lot closer to the Stormers than Bloemfontein.

 

[The Seeker]

Do you not already consider it poetic injustice that the defending Currie cup champions are being kicked out?

Yes, that fits too. I think the decision to kick the Cheetahs is a back stab. Et tu, Pro14? I could see it if they did something wrong, but I haven't heard anything in that regard.

 

[The Seeker]

Well no, I'm a Sharks supporter and would inherently be against it based on bias. Jus like any other team, among them Cheetahs supporters.
The fact that I'm advocating for the Cheetahs as a supporter of a team whose position is secure, snug and cozy should be telling.

Lets look at a map.


View attachment 8543

Now that the Kings are gone, The Sharks effectively represent both the Bright green and Purple geographical areas. This has been the way in Franchise rugby before the Kings existed. When Super rugby was played and there was no Kings people from the Eastern Cape still wanted to support a team and because of the close links the Sharks came to represent Eastern cape interests when we play Franchise rugby. Ask anyone the Sharks are the best supported team in the Eastern Cape even ahead of the now defunct Kings.

So that is a huge geographical area, very very populous too,

Western Cape in pale green is the Stormers, its Cape Town, they are safe.

Then orange is the Free State and it is represented by the Cheetahs. North West in ivory is also primarily Cheetahs.

The lions share the smallest geographical region with the Bulls in Turqois. I am of the opinion that their supporter base is significantly smaller that the Cheetahs.
Bulls also represent Limpopo in purple probably the second best supported team in SA after Stormers.

For me the decision should have been clear. The lions.

But it has happened now, im chilled and excited for the Sharks. Im not a Cheetahs fan. So looking forward to the Pro 16.
Just wanted to point out the facts that SARU probably erred in kicking the Cheetahs instead of the Lions.

I don't understand why they can't keep the Cheetahs and move ahead with 17 teams? Major League Rugby now has an odd number of teams (13), and that doesn't stop them.

NEWS SEP-22-2020
[h2][/h2]

 

[TRF_heineken]

Here's the media statement from SARU regarding the announcement:

So based on this statement, the Super 8 tournament the Cheetahs will be involved with, will be a SANZAAR tournament. Which could mean that the Cheetahs and the Jaguares could be part of a tournament. Maybe even the Sunwolves...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

was there any debate about a "champions league" kind of set up? top 4 teams from the CC play Pro14 the next year...every team has a fair chance?

 

[TRF_heineken]

was there any debate about a "champions league" kind of set up? top 4 teams from the CC play Pro14 the next year...every team has a fair chance?

No, because the teams playing Currie Cup are not franchise teams, but union teams. And that is whole different kettle of fish when it comes to SA Rugby politics.

Plus, it seems like the vote was pretty overwhelming in favour of the big 4 joining the PRO tournament. 13 members voted, and it appears that the Cheetahs were the only ones against the proposal.

Also, the Cheetahs boss, Harold Verster said that their board will have a meeting with their sponsors, and discuss the way forward, as they have to decide to take legal action against SARU (which I don't think they'll win), or accept the outcome of the meeting and look to the future.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surely the cheetahs have a very strong case considering they're contracted to the pro14 for three more seasons?
Why would anyone trust the SARU again if they can just tear up contracts whenever they feel like it?

 

[The Seeker]

So one guy says that and it makes the news?? Seriously?? Of course not everyone will be happy about their team getting the axe. You can't keep everyone happy all the time.

And they are very premature to say things like that, when they don't even know all the details of what happened at the meeting, and what this new tournament they will be involved with consist of, maybe just maybe it would be a better tournament for them.

Yes, seriously. From your post above, you mentioned the Cheetahs will have a board meeting to discuss legal action vs SARU. If they go to court, then they're obviously serious.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Surely the cheetahs have a very strong case considering they're contracted to the pro14 for three more seasons?
Why would anyone trust the SARU again if they can just tear up contracts whenever they feel like it?

It's more complicated than that. SARU made the agreement with PRO DAC, not the Cheetahs directly. The Cheetahs and the Kings then made franchise agreements with SARU.

So technically the Cheetahs doesn't have an agreement with PRO DAC directly, but with SARU. So if they want to go to court based on contracts, it will be against SARU, and it will be a case between the Franchisor and Franchisee. So it all depends on the Franchise agreement the Cheetahs made with SARU.

The hurdle will be that the unions, who voted at the board meeting, makes the decisions as the Franchisor. So even if the Cheetahs as a union, voted against it at the board meeting, the majority voted in favour of this.

The other thing they need to consider is that all the franchises gets benefits from the teams participating in the tournament, so even if the Cheetahs doesn't play PRO rugby, they still get funding from the tournament. Taking legal action against the hand that feeds you, might not necessarily be the best way to go, as your are essentially using the money you got from them, to fight them.

I just think that the Cheetahs board should weigh up all their options before taking drastic steps. The fact that there were reports that the Cheetahs will go the legal route even before this vote happened, and now after the vote that there are reports, that they are considering taking the legal route, or not, makes me think that there was a bit more thinking done by the top brass and that their exclusion going forward might not be as bad as it seems. Especially since SARU is creating a new tournament for them to compensate.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So the Super 8 sounds like it will be the no body wants them cup?

 

[TRF_heineken]

So the Super 8 sounds like it will be the no body wants them cup?

Depends on who participates I guess. If it's the Sunwolves, Cheetahs, Jaguares and the Western Force, then yeah.

If it's other teams it could be the "little big towns cup", or "Worst Coloured Kit cup" ...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So the Super 8 sounds like it will be the no body wants them cup?

Supposedly the Cheetahs are one of the best supported teams in world rugby going by comments elsewhere on this thread.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Japan had no interest in continuing the sunwolves as they've revamped their domestic league?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't understand why they can't keep the Cheetahs and move ahead with 17 teams? Major League Rugby now has an odd number of teams (13), and that doesn't stop them.

NEWS SEP-22-2020
[h2][/h2]

That certainly would've been best for SARU. I can only expect the current role players weren't keen on further expansion even if only the one additional team. We are beggars here to an extent and even if I believe we can add some additional value we probably can't be choosers.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That certainly would've been best for SARU. I can only expect the current role players weren't keen on further expansion even if only the one additional team. We are beggars here to an extent and even if I believe we can add some additional value we probably can't be choosers.

16 is a very good number of teams to implement a two conference system and maintain national fixtures.

Play the 7 teams in your conference twice, 14 games, and inter-conference "derby"* games once or twice, 2/4 fixtures. Maintaining the current playoff system it's a max of 21 games which is a manageable number. I think any bigger becomes a player welfare issue, so I wouldn't be surprised if SARU only wanted 4 teams too. An odd numbered tournament was never going to happen with a two conference system.

*Group the Italians & Scots together here.