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Cats in 2013?

The problem with promotion/relegation is you'll basically just end up with two teams swapping every year (probably the Lions and the Kings). They won't retain any of their talent, because there's no guarantee of playing in Super Rugby if you're with either of those teams, so their players will leave and they'll be depleted even more. It's a waste of time.
 
At the end of the day promotion/relegation is the best solution rather than creating some unholy union like what the 'Cats' were.

What I would like to see in the future (along with a shitload of other things but that's another thread) is the planned promotion/relegation being not just the right of the 6 S15 franchises (Kings included and the Lions will have the right to challenge at the end of 2013) but rather having the top Currie cup team not in Super rugby challenge the bottom SA team in Super rugby.

That would bring back some significance lost to CC rugby while creating the opportunity for a team like Griquas to qualify for SR. Those teams not currently in SR (in 2013 would be Border, Griquas, Lions-they aren't going to go past the Cheetahs- SWD, pumas, leopards, griffons) could make their players available to those who are much like the Qriquas are doing for the Cheetahs at the moment.

PS; please bring back the provincal names then and drop the franchise name or at the very least, add the province as a prefix; WP Stormers, KZN Sharks etc.
 
actually the distance from bloem to jhb is 400km...just for the record :)
394 and 475 for Kimberly. But you get the point. Thats almost the same distance as Auckland to New Plymouth. Drop the Lions and watch the Kings fail till they get bring back the Lions
 
This is all chasing a dream for 'Cheeky Watson' the latest post that i read about this consern made sence to me it's not up to SARU to make the decision so Cheeky is going to have to convince SANZAR which won't be an easy task since they are all against the idea. my personal opinion is that they revert back to S14 and let the cats role personally i don't think that the cats and the cheetahs are strong enough on their own but they will show real form again combined as the cats as they did in the S12 even though i take my hat of for the cheetahs they really show their passion on the field and they can give a surprise on any givin saturday or friday. As far as the Southern Kings dreams concerns me they don't have a hope in hell even if they can pull in that dreamlist of players mentioned earlier. Francois Steyn will not move to a smaller union in fact i heard talks that the sharks negotiated a deal with him so scratch him off on your dream list. Fourie Du Preez is a true bull the only teams jersey that will go over his head on S.A soil will be a blue one with horns on them, that was prover 2 years ago when he resigned with the Bulls after Western Province offered him a contract a better one than the Bulls i might add. I don't think Stefan Terblanche will come out of retirement.... and to end my post of how can we be serious about the Kings in the Super Series if they get knocked out in the quarter finals in the vodacom cup by the Pumas 'B' team with a hiding of more than 20 points??? Comon common logic shows that they will not survive the onslaught and SANZAR knows this. they just aren't qualified enough.
 
Eastern Province is a Union. The King is the franchise. They are playing without the other players and will obviously be bolstered by other player. They already got two NZ coaches for next year. This will destroy the Golden Lions. Big financial loss to a union already running on the edge. Its got a lot of youngsters which might be loss by this country. Thank you SARU. We all know that Springbok selection is mainly picking Super Rugby players so you can see where they are going with this.

Other thing is I do not know where they get the idea with talented players of color comes from that region and never get the opportunity. Where are they? EP and Border has been crap for ages. They are confusing cricket with Rugby. That region is the oldest cricket one in the country. But players of color have mostly been coming from either Zimbabwe or the Boland and SWD. They forget about that WP League squad that won the B section with Quinton Daniels and those guys. Many forget that team was a development team for WP.

This was the WP league team of

WP-Liga: William Daniels; Kelvin Davids, Aron Pietersen, Russell Roux, Wilfred Cupido; Quinton Daniels, Rudolph Paulse; Ellis Huysamen, Gordon Mitchell, Paul Carstens, Christie Noble, Johan Claasen, Charlie Marais, Gideon Simons, Jerome Paarwater. Reserwes: Hydle Barry en Andrew Kirsten.

WP had a very good team and you can recognize some of those names who went on to play for them and other unions. That is how you do development.
 
Very true but our sports ministers aren't interested in players of any 'color' other than ethnic black and then not 'imports' like Mujati and Mtawarira. The peoples of European, Asian, Khoi-San and mixed decent can go bugger themselves as far as the ANC are concerned. That is the lot of the minority in this country. Nevermind that the San peoples are the true inhabitants of SA and the Nguni's are just as much 'imperialists' and 'colonialists' as the Afrikaans and english here. But that is enough of my political rant. I guess I am just a bit irritated at the fact that the ANC and COSATU strike, protest and pillage left right and centre and then go throw stones at and intimidate DA protesters who are marching peacefully with an agenda aimed at elliviating the plight of the young jobless of all races..
 
Can we really judge the Kings on what they currently are?
Someone already mentioned in this thread that if your team isn't in Super Rugby you won't be really be eligible for spring bok selection. Meaning for years the players from the South Kings "Union" obviously were playing their rugby elsewhere.

That doesn't mean there isn't a wealth of talent in the area off the top of my head, Lwazi Mvovo, Akona and Odwa Ndungane, Bjorn Basson, Tim Whitehead, JJ Engelbregt, Siya Kolisi, Jacques Potgiether and Kanko all hail from the Eastern Cape. Now they understandably moved to greener pastures but is it fair to not give such a talent producing province a fair shot?

Everyone says the Southern Kings aren't up to scratch at the moment and that's very true, but if all of the Eastern Cape grown players are just going to move to other unions because the Eastern Cape lacks a Super Rugby franchise is that really a fair comment, we can't retain good players if we don't have a Super Rugby franchise which creates a vicious cycle.
The Eastern Cape boasts a fanatical base of rugby supporters, probably closer to the Stormers or Bulls in terms of pure numbers than anywhere near the numbers the lions or cheetahs have.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot or offend anyone here but for me the question should be: Does the Eastern Cape as a rugby playing and rugby supporting union, deserve a chance in Super rugby not - is the current Eastern Cape team good enough.

Yes I am from the Eastern Cape so I am biased but I'm just trying to put this in perspective a little.
 
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I'm with you, Someoke. Lions have been dreadful, an embarrassment and have had their chances for a while now. Get lost, sort yourself out and try and come back in by challenging the Kings or whoever might be last in the SA conference.

The argument that the Lions won't be able to get back in due to this and that is exactly the same as the situation the Kings find themselves in now so those saying the Kings must 'earn' their spot should say the same regarding the Lions.

Lets see if they can do something I say. Lions are a struggling financially, Ellis Park is a dump and that is reflected on the log.
 
Can we really judge the Kings on what they currently are?
Someone already mentioned in this thread that if your team isn't in Super Rugby you won't be really be eligible for spring bok selection. Meaning for years the players from the South Kings "Union" obviously were playing their rugby elsewhere.

That doesn't mean there isn't a wealth of talent in the area off the top of my head, Lwazi Mvovo, Akona and Odwa Ndungane, Bjorn Basson, Tim Whitehead, JJ Engelbregt, Siya Kolisi, Jacques Potgiether and Kanko all hail from the Eastern Cape. Now they understandably moved to greener pastures but is it fair to not give such a talent producing province a fair shot?

Everyone says the Southern Kings aren't up to scratch at the moment and that's very true, but if all of the Eastern Cape grown players are just going to move to other unions because the Eastern Cape lacks a Super Rugby franchise is that really a fair comment, we can't retain good players if we don't have a Super Rugby franchise which creates a vicious cycle.
The Eastern Cape boasts a fanatical base of rugby supporters, probably closer to the Stormers or Bulls in terms of pure numbers than anywhere near the numbers the lions or cheetahs have.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot or offend anyone here but for me the question should be: Does the Eastern Cape as a rugby playing and rugby supporting union, deserve a chance in Super rugby not - is the current Eastern Cape team good enough.

Yes I am from the Eastern Cape so I am biased but I'm just trying to put this in perspective a little.
You see that is the problem. Why did Bjorn played his first Currie Cup match for Griquas? Where the Cheetahs used them in their Super Rugby team because the Cheetahs franchise is Griquas and Freestate. The Akona and Odwa Ndungane comes from Border. Bulls bought Odwa from Border and franchise or not the Eastern Cape players will be bought because Border and EP do not have the financial backing that the Sharks and the Bulls has got. Tim Whitehead played for WP U/21 side. He was not lured because to Super Rugby but the failure of the EP development system for youngsters. Kolisi WP U19 player another failure on the Eastern Cape development system. Mvovo Natal U21 another failure. Engelbrecht for Stellenbosch University where they won the Varsity Cup and played for WP.

So they did not move onto greener patches. They moved due to the failure of correctly developing players. Franchise or not those players will still move on to other teams because they are doing at 18 years of age. Do you think a spot in the EP or Border U/19 or U/20 side will keep them there? Or playing for them in the Currie Cup will keep them there? No it won't. They will still move onto WP where the Bulls will buy them probably.

As for the Golden Lions. Who is the Currie Cup champions? The Lions are not doing poor because they they do never produce talent but due to the lack of financial backing. They do not have Supersport behind them like all the others. Yet they manage to what not any team of EP has ever done. Win the Currie Cup. Starting a Super Rugby Franchise is not development. You do not develop at that level you do it at lower levels. U/18 U/19. What hope is there if you do not look after those levels and jump straight to the high levels?The Kings will always be given a grant by SARU where the Lions never received anything like that. So that development story is a lot of fud. They are there due to political reasons and they got Mark Keohane in who is the Kings players agent to write a lot of fud in the papers and spread some bull. The Kings Franchise lost 88 - 0 to the Lions btw.

SCORERS:

LIONS 88: Tries by Derick Minnie 2, Deon van Rensburg 2, James Kamana 2, Elton Jantjies 2, Cobus Grobbelaar, Hendrik Roodt, Patric Cilliers, Callie Visagie 2, penalty try; nine conversions by Elton Jantjies.

SOUTHERN KINGS 0.

Are they going to buy left over players from other unions and call it promising talent of the Eastern Cape?
 
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You see that is the problem. Why did Bjorn played his first Currie Cup match for Griquas? Where the Cheetahs used them in their Super Rugby team because the Cheetahs franchise is Griquas and Freestate. The Akona and Odwa Ndungane comes from Border. Bulls bought Odwa from Border and franchise or not the Eastern Cape players will be bought because Border and EP do not have the financial backing that the Sharks and the Bulls has got. Tim Whitehead played for WP U/21 side. He was not lured because to Super Rugby but the failure of the EP development system for youngsters. Kolisi WP U19 player another failure on the Eastern Cape development system. Mvovo Natal U21 another failure. Engelbrecht for Stellenbosch University where they won the Varsity Cup and played for WP.

So they did not move onto greener patches. They moved due to the failure of correctly developing players. Franchise or not those players will still move on to other teams because they are doing at 18 years of age. Do you think a spot in the EP or Border U/19 or U/20 side will keep them there? Or playing for them in the Currie Cup will keep them there? No it won't. They will still move onto WP where the Bulls will buy them probably.

As for the Golden Lions. Who is the Currie Cup champions? The Lions are not doing poor because they they do never produce talent but due to the lack of financial backing. They do not have Supersport behind them like all the others. Yet they manage to what not any team of EP has ever done. Win the Currie Cup. Starting a Super Rugby Franchise is not development. You do not develop at that level you do it at lower levels. U/18 U/19. What hope is there if you do not look after those levels and jump straight to the high levels?The Kings will always be given a grant by SARU where the Lions never received anything like that. So that development story is a lot of fud. They are there due to political reasons and they got Mark Keohane in who is the Kings players agent to write a lot of fud in the papers and spread some bull. The Kings Franchise lost 88 - 0 to the Lions btw.
I'm not sure what you mean by failure of EP development, at the very lowest level (Schoolboy level) the development in the Eastern Cape is great, it stands to reason that when these youngsters reach the point where they want to play professionally they think about moving to the best place to further their career which isn't in the Eastern Cape. Players have to have incentive for advancement. If you were straight out of Varsity with a management degree would you rather work at a Restaurant where the highest level you could advance to would be floor manager, or join a company which you could ultimately climb to being CEO.

Hell yes young talent might stay and play for EP or Border if they knew that such a move would facilitate Super Rugby exposure and the furthering of their careers. If a player can make a proper impression in South African rugby in ones home union that's generally preferable, and at this point the Southern Kings actually do have the finances to hold on to such players.

If a young player leaves the Eastern Cape straight after High School it's not a failure of the EP system, they are simply looking after their best interests in terms of their future, if staying local doesn't hamper their careers and EP has enough money to keep that player interested than their is very little reason to leave, it all comes down to the young players looking at themselves and thinking "what is the best path I can take to make my career as fulfilling as possible." with EP languishing in the second division obviously it's not an attractive option for any player just leaving school.

Are you sure that players weren't lured away due to lack of Super Rugby? I actually went to school with Siya and I know for a fact that he left PE not because of lack of loyalty but because he saw a better chance of advancement in WP where he could go through the usual channels of Currie cup, Super rugby and then Springboks.

Also I've already said that EP can't be judged on the team they are now, but the 88-0 defeat was to the SWD Eagles which judging by your rugby knowledge you already know and are only using it to back up your point.

The bottom line is, as long as the Eastern Cape doesn't offer players a future at the highest level, our promising talent will always make the most ambitious choice (and so they should).
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by failure of EP development, at the very lowest level (Schoolboy level) the development in the Eastern Cape is great, it stands to reason that when these youngsters reach the point where they want to play professionally they think about moving to the best place to further their career which isn't in the Eastern Cape. Players have to have incentive for advancement. If you were straight out of Varsity with a management degree would you rather work at a Restaurant where the highest level you could advance to would be floor manager, or join a company which you could ultimately climb to being CEO.

Hell yes young talent might stay and play for EP or Border if they knew that such a move would facilitate Super Rugby exposure and the furthering of their careers. If a player can make a proper impression in South African rugby in ones home union that's generally preferable, and at this point the Southern Kings actually do have the finances to hold on to such players.

If a young player leaves the Eastern Cape straight after High School it's not a failure of the EP system, they are simply looking after their best interests in terms of their future, if staying local doesn't hamper their careers and EP has enough money to keep that player interested than their is very little reason to leave, it all comes down to the young players looking at themselves and thinking "what is the best path I can take to make my career as fulfilling as possible." with EP languishing in the second division obviously it's not an attractive option for any player just leaving school.

Are you sure that players weren't lured away due to lack of Super Rugby? I actually went to school with Siya and I know for a fact that he left PE not because of lack of loyalty but because he saw a better chance of advancement in WP where he could go through the usual channels of Currie cup, Super rugby and then Springboks.

Also I've already said that EP can't be judged on the team they are now, but the 88-0 defeat was to the SWD Eagles which judging by your rugby knowledge you already know and are only using it to back up your point.

The bottom line is, as long as the Eastern Cape doesn't offer players a future at the highest level, our promising talent will always make the most ambitious choice (and so they should).

SWD you say?

Lions claw Southern Kings

With Elton Jantjies orchestrating the proceedings at flyhalf, the Lions swamped the Southern Kings 88-0 in their friendly rugby match in George on Tuesday night.

Jantjies crossed for two tries and kicked nine conversions for a personal tally of 28 points as the Super Rugby franchise demonstrated the gulf between those in the system and those who are desperately trying to get there.

It would be easy to scoff at the Southern Kings' Super Rugby ambitions after being so outclassed, but the fact is that several of the Super Rugby franchises have been through painful matches like this and have emerged to fight another day.

The Kings are in the process of assessing their potential Super Rugby contenders and this latest match will have given the team management further feedback to consider.

In posting such an impressive performance, admittedly against opposition not at the same level, the Lions sent out a strong message that they intend to follow up their Currie Cup triumph last year.

It will obviously be a different playing field when the competition starts next week, but the Lions looked full of confidence last night and played with superb cohesion.

This was illustrated early in the game when three of their first four tries came from driving mauls after lineouts on the five-metre line. The Kings simply could not stop the Lions' teamwork on the drive, resulting in two tries by Derick Minnie, another by Cobus Grobbelaar, as well as a penalty try.

As the Lions forwards effectively recycled the ball, scrumhalf Michael Bondesio provided an accurate and lively service for Jantjies, who showed crisp distribution to have the Kings constantly on the defence.

The home side never gave up trying, but no team can keep plugging the gaps and the 40-0 score at halftime was a clear signal of who was in control.

Skipper Gareth Krause and No 8 Michael Vermaak were always in the thick of things and wing Vuyo Mboto had one or two chances down the right flank, but the Kings' execution often lacked the necessary accuracy due to the greater pressure they were under.

It did not help matters early in the second half when the constant bombardment by the Lions saw the Kings commit too many infringements for referee Marius Jonker's liking and two yellow cards in quick succession reduced them to 13 men at one stage.

The Lions made the most of this, running in three tries in four minutes to ensure there would be no easy way out for the home side.

In the end, the Lions crossed for 13 tries, plus the penalty try, while Jantjies landed nine of his 13 attempts at goal.

The Southern Kings now face their final match of the pre-season friendlies when they come up against the Sharks at the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium in Port Elizabeth on Friday evening.
http://www.supersport.com/rugby/super-rugby/news/120214/Lions_claw_Southern_Kings
EP at Cravenweek 2011:

Golden lions 39 - EP 13
Griffons 31 - EP 16
Boland 34 - EP 34

Tell me where do EP, Border and SWD play in the Currie Cup? Since when do SWD sit in the Eastern Cape? Did they redraw the provincial lines for the Kings as well? The Lions deserved their place in Super Rugby cause they won the Currie Cup. All be it if it was against weak teams due to missing their stars they still won it. Something teams from the EP did not manage to do since the history of the CC. Hell they can not even beat provincial C teams in the Vodacom Cup. Why do they import coaches as well? You got bundle of talents there why import people from NZ? Snor is looking for work.

Ag nee man. Local is lekker. Get a South African to do the job.as if unemployment is not high enough, we import another to do our work. Get with it Kings I am sure there is a Zuma somewhere that is still jobless and needs a cash injection when he gets removed after a year in the job.
 
SWD's main ground is in George and last time I checked George was still in the Western Cape. the only reason why they will amalgamate with the Kings is because Boland has some big guys up in the Stormers Management setup and don't want their team to be disadvantaged by SWD also joining in. That said at the moment SWD players has now mostly been signed by the Bulls and CHeetahs...
 
@Cave Dweller
Sigh, as the Southern Kings will be made of the Eaglers, Border and EP in those pre-game matches Cheeky could draw from any unions, he played the Eagles against the Lions to rest the starting players, I believe the match team sheets will confirm this. It's never been provincial lines anyway, this is Super Rugby, Unions are made from amalgamations (at least in theory).

And as I've tried to illustrate many times, you can't judge the kings on what they are now.

Anyway I'm done arguing. You are defining this argument as - The EP kings as they sit are a **** team and don't deserve a spot. That's not the argument I'm making and I don't even disagree with that.
 
My Opinion on this matter is that the current 5 teams in the Super Rugby tournament for SA are there because their main squad consist of their homeground's Union playing good rugby in the Currie Cup and then when it's Super Rugby time they add very few players form other teams.

The kings main base is EP, with the addition of SWD, Border, Griffons, hell even the whole rest of SA.

BUT

those players aren't good enough to get the nod in one of the top 8 teams in the Currie Cup, which means they are worse than the top 360 players in the Country... of which only 225 maximum gets the chance of playing Super Rugby... That means there's still 135 other players, playing in the top division, who won't play Super Rugby, but are better than the combination of the Kings amalgamated teams... That's how idiotic our system is with this plan!
 
@Cave Dweller
Sigh, as the Southern Kings will be made of the Eaglers, Border and EP in those pre-game matches Cheeky could draw from any unions, he played the Eagles against the Lions to rest the starting players, I believe the match team sheets will confirm this. It's never been provincial lines anyway, this is Super Rugby, Unions are made from amalgamations (at least in theory).

And as I've tried to illustrate many times, you can't judge the kings on what they are now.

Anyway I'm done arguing. You are defining this argument as - The EP kings as they sit are a **** team and don't deserve a spot. That's not the argument I'm making and I don't even disagree with that.
No he played Border and SWD players in that game. It is still the Kings franchise. They lost 38 - 13 to a Sharks side playing their first game of the season. I bet you if they face the Sharks now it will be worse than the Force scoreline.

But the simple fact is here we have a second-division rugby team being promised a place in arguably the world's most difficult and competitive non-international rugby competition.
 
This is a good read

In recent times Keohane has been busying himself in the extensive business interests of HSM, as well as media relations of other entities, such as Jake White's Winning Ways – a business partnership which ended in a heated law suit, kept hushed away out of the public sphere. Even more recently, however, HSM -and Mark Keohane in particular – were awarded the contract to manage the media, marketing and public relations of the South African Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (SASCOC). The awarding of this contract was never put up for tender, as is standard government procedure, but was rather awarded directly to HSM (although Keohane states that normal application took place, the fact remains it should have gone to tender).

And this is where the Keo connection begins to reveal itself.

During his time at SA Rugby, Mark Keohane worked alongside the likes of Rian Oberholzer (President of SARFU), Songezo Nayo (Managing Director), Gary Grant (Marketing Director) and the current president of SASCOC – Gideon Sam (Springbok Team Manager).

All four names mentioned above are currently directors of sports marketing company Accelerate Sports, with Gideon Sam being appointed as Chairman. Gideon Sam also serves on the Lotto Distribution Board, but excused himself when dealing with the funding grant to SA Cycling, a grant from which Accelerate Sport received commission to the tune of R 26 million – a blatant conflict of interest.

Accelerate Sport, through their subsidiary Access Facilities and Leisure Management (AFLM), were also awarded the contract as operations manager of the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium. It is reported that this contract brings in a whopping R 600 000 a month to the coffers of Accelerate. It is the duty of AFLM to source events to be staged at the stadium to generate revenue and keep the stadium sustainable.

And here the connection between rugby and Accelerate begins to become clear.

The contract between AFLM and the Nelson Mandela Bay Metro states that, above the R 600 000 a month, AFLM are to be awarded performance bonuses based on the revenue they generate, providing this amount exceeds R 12,5 million a year. The structure of this bonus is as follows:

The Operator will be paid 10% of any amount above R12.5 million but less than R15 million, and then:

· 12.5% of any amount in excess of R15 million but less than R20 million

· 15% of any amount in excess of R20 million but less than R25 million, and

· 20% of any amount in excess of R25 million.

It is thus blatantly clear that it is in the best interests of Accelerate to find events which will draw spectators, such as concerts etc.

But what better way to ensure constant revenue, week after week, than playing host to a top tier sports team. If only the Eastern Cape had one.
http://www.rugby-talk.com/2012/05/a...ngs-joffers-saru-and-more-agendas/#more-47331
 
My Opinion on this matter is that the current 5 teams in the Super Rugby tournament for SA are there because their main squad consist of their homeground's Union playing good rugby in the Currie Cup and then when it's Super Rugby time they add very few players form other teams.

The kings main base is EP, with the addition of SWD, Border, Griffons, hell even the whole rest of SA.

BUT

those players aren't good enough to get the nod in one of the top 8 teams in the Currie Cup, which means they are worse than the top 360 players in the Country... of which only 225 maximum gets the chance of playing Super Rugby... That means there's still 135 other players, playing in the top division, who won't play Super Rugby, but are better than the combination of the Kings amalgamated teams... That's how idiotic our system is with this plan!
It actually gets better. They are going to be shopping overseas and buy players from elsewhere. So there will be basically one or 2 oak be in it that is from that region
 
The South African Rugby Union have revealed that they have agreed on a "a number of options" with their Super Rugby teams that will solve the problem of having six teams with only five places.

SARU said in a statement on Monday that they had a "positive meeting" - the second meeting with its franchises in four days - the possible solutions will now be considered by its executive committee.

A final decision on how South Africa structures its Super 15 Rugby teams from next season will be made by SARU's General Council in July, the national body said.

However while SARU said that they had agreed on a number of options they did not reveal what the options were.

SARU is scrambling to avoid having to sacrifice one of its current Super 15 outfits after it promised the new Southern Kings a place in 2013, only for organizer SANZAR to refuse to expand the tournament.

Options available to SARU are to relegate the lowest-placed South African team, currently the Johannesburg-based Lions, or get two teams to merge, with the Kings guaranteed their place next year.

The Lions and the Cheetahs, who are from the central city of Bloemfontein, are the likeliest candidates for a merger.

The two joined up before when they competed as the Cats in Super rugby between 1998 and 2006.

SARU's General Council will make its decision with a vote. The General Council is made up of two representatives from each of South Africa's 14 rugby provinces - each of whom has one vote.

The meeting chairman, SARU's president or deputy president, also has a vote.

A majority is required to pass decisions.

Article on superxv.com

Very interesting
 
The Lions are the only team that Supersport nor SAIL has a stake in. Most profits come from gate receipts and SAIL do have a stake in EP rugby. The Lions are dependable on SARU for financial backing unlike the others. Now put 1 and 1 together.

The Cats idea is horrible and if that happen you might see some Cheetah players move to the Sharks.
 
I heard there were really bad logistics issues with the Cats franchise, and neither unions like the idea at all.
 

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