• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Cats in 2013?

Gena_ZA

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
2,293
Country Flag
South Africa
Club or Nation
Stormers
Personally I think this be the best for South Africa, with some players naturally move to other unions and arguably going to the Spears. Respect to Mitchell !

[h=1]Mitchell backs Cats solution[/h]9 May 2012
John Mitchell says Saru’s handling of the Southern Kings saga has been poor and unfair and believes a Cats merger will be the best way forward.
It’s been four months and 14 days since Saru dropped the bomb that the Kings will play Super Rugby in 2013. While the decision is great news for the Eastern Cape region, the fact that the national union made this decision without a solution to how all six franchises will be accommodated next season, and their delay in announcing one, has caused more harm than good.
Saru has asked Sanzar for permission to enter all six teams next year. But this request was declined because of the Super Rugby’s broadcasting commitment to the current 15-team conference format that only expires in 2015. Saru then planned a rescue mission trip to Australasia in March and put together a delegation that they believed could convince their partners to reconsider. However, this never materialised.
This lack of progress has caused a lot of speculation within the South African rugby fraternity and media. There have been talks of a relegation process, with the Lions picked as the likely option for the drop because of their poor Super Rugby record, while there also suggestions that the Lions and Cheetahs should play as the Cats again, like they did from 1998-2005.
Saru have set a date on 17 May to meet with all local franchises to discuss the Kings debacle. However, Lions head coach John Mitchell has criticised the union for their poor handling of the matter.
‘As a national body, Saru should be more transparent about their thought process,’ Mitchell told keo.co.za from New Zealand. ‘It should have made a decision on how the Kings will be accommodated by now so that all the parties can plan ahead. It [the criticism] is not something one wants to talk about, but Saru needed to be clearer and it is being unfair on all the teams, players and management being speculated about.’
So what is the best way forward, from a Lions point of view? Mitchell believes the Cheetahs and Lions should merge to create a franchise that will boast quality depth and compete for the ***le.
‘South African rugby should be entering teams into Super Rugby that have a strong chance of winning the competition. As separate franchises, the Cheetahs and Lions have struggled, especially when there are injuries. If we had to combine teams, we would have a squad strong enough to deal with issues and that will be capable of winning on a regular basis.’
The initial Cats initiative broke down because of financial and logistic issues. Both teams complained about living out of hotels, being away from their families, while the two unions had to share the profits accumulated. There is also the question about appointing a management team.
Mitchell argued that these issues can be resolved.
‘The problems you mention are just hurdles in the way of the best solution. If the necessary input is given by both teams, we can build a strong community and culture, and appoint strong leaders to take this merger forward.
‘We have a similar structure in New Zealand, where players from different provinces â€" sometimes five different teams â€" have to play as one Super Rugby franchise. This is what I experienced when playing for the Chiefs, and look how they’re doing now. The Cats were also once successful, so there are no reasons why they can’t achieve similar results if the necessary work is done.
‘In terms of management, we have to offer the player the best resources to work with. So a management team that consists of coaches from both the Lions and Cheetahs will have to be drawn up. I won’t mind working with the Cheetahs coaches.’
In the past, Cheetahs CEO Harold Verster and other management have argued strongly against the possibility of merging with the Lions. But considering the threat of relegation and Saru hosting a meeting with all South African franchise next week, Verster did not rule out the possibility of an amalgamation.
‘We are joining Saru and the other franchises for a meeting on 17 May,’ Verster also told this site. ‘We will not comment on this matter until we have discussed the situation with the other parties. Once there is more clarity, we can speak about possible steps forward.’
By Gareth Duncan
 
Interesting. He's right about the strength of the teams in SA - it'd be nice if the Cats could actually challenge the other 14 teams.
 
Well, the 'Cats' route is just as likely and logical as any other solution;

- Kings dont' join
- one SA team gets relegated
- have an impossible conference system where one conference has 6 teams and the others 5

or (and this my choice due to my thinking the season is too long and I hate the conference system)

- scrap the conferences, include the Kings and have each team play each other once (home or away on draw). But keep the 6 team play-offs and keep a 'secured' play-off spot to keep the Aussies (John O'Neil) from wetting their smallclothes. Each team then has 15 games to play (1 against the 15 other teams) instead of 16 (8 inter-conference and 8 foreign teams) and you don't get any less total games and that should keep broadcasters happy.

But at the end of the day SARU signed contracts with it's partners and if they don't want to budge then that's SARU's problem and they need to sort it out and whether that means losses for the Kings or one of the existing franchises then they need to pay for their incompetence.
 
Interesting. He's right about the strength of the teams in SA - it'd be nice if the Cats could actually challenge the other 14 teams.

The Lions are situated in the financial capital of Africa and population-wise they are best off. They have a whole host of issues that havn't been addressed for some time but they have the potential to be SA's best again; they won the inaugural S10 back in 1993 and were losing finalists in 1995. From there unfortunately not so much success.

The Cats concept is just not a feasible one; could you see the Blues and Highlanders being run any better together than seperately? Because that's basically the distance involved.
 
why they keep going on about a 6th team is beyond me because we do not have the depth, but this is what happens when politics enter sport. not even a promotion/relegation match, just a straight get the hell outa here! i think it should go back to super 12 with 4 teams each then it will be more competitive and the tournament not so long. the currie cup will start when the super 15 aint even done yet if i'm not mistaken! now how the hell will that work?
 
why they keep going on about a 6th team is beyond me because we do not have the depth, but this is what happens when politics enter sport. not even a promotion/relegation match, just a straight get the hell outa here! i think it should go back to super 12 with 4 teams each then it will be more competitive and the tournament not so long. the currie cup will start when the super 15 aint even done yet if i'm not mistaken! now how the hell will that work?

1 Wian du Preez
2 Schalk Brits
3 Brian Mujati
4 Gerhard Mostert
5 Danie Rossouw
6 Francois Louw
7 Joe van Niekerk
8 Ernst Joubert
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Ruan Pienaar
11 Sarel Pretorius
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 Corne Uys
15 Stefan Terblanche

SA expats. Almost all of whom are Bokke. I'm sure they could lure at least a few of these players back (there are many others who would do well in S16 as well).

And if EP could keep their young talent they'd have had Siya Kolisi, Johan Goosen and Jacques Potgieter (all in their first year of S15 and originally from the Eastern Province- potgieter even having starred for the Kings last year before the Bulls bought him) available to them. They aren't going to be able to lure top players or keep promising youngsters being entrenched in CC div 1.
 
Last edited:
They earn pounds and Euro's, really think they will come back?

I am all for the merger, the surplus or those feeling offended can join to Spears and bolster their stocks
 
1 Wian du Preez
2 Schalk Brits
3 Brian Mujati
4 Gerhard Mostert
5 Danie Rossouw
6 Francois Louw
7 Joe van Niekerk
8 Ernst Joubert
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Ruan Pienaar
11 Sarel Pretorius
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 Corne Uys
15 Stefan Terblanche

SA expats. Almost all of whom are Bokke. I'm sure they could lure at least a few of these players back (there are many others who would do well in S16 as well).

And if EP could keep their young talent they'd have had Siya Kolisi, Johan Goosen and Jacques Potgieter (all in their first year of S15 and originally from the Eastern Province- potgieter even having starred for the Kings last year before the Bulls bought him) available to them. They aren't going to be able to lure top players or keep promising youngsters being entrenched in CC div 1.

Three scrum halves is pushing it a bit don't you think?
 
Three scrum halves is pushing it a bit don't you think?

Pienaar has played at 10 more often than not for Both Sharks and SA (or close enough to 50% LOL). Pretorius has played his best rugby on the wing IMO.

They earn pounds and Euro's, really think they will come back?

Many have returned; Butch, JDV, J Kruger, CJ v/d Linde, J Pietersen, Deon Carstens... I can go on and on. It depends on each individual situation. Remember a million Rands is till more than 70000 Euro's. You can also bet the Kings will have deep pockets (not all of those pockets will be their own though but that is beside the point).And there are other considerations. I'm not saying everyone will return and off course there are conrtactual obligations but my point was (responding to the bit I highlighted in my previous post) that SA has the depth.
 
Last edited:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/SARU-clarifies-S15-confusion-20120510

SARU clarifies that the SA team on the bottom of the S15 log gets the chop (see you later, Golden Lions) in favor of the Southern Kings who are the only confirmed team from SA for the 2013 season. From end 2013 onwards the bottom team will then play promotion/relegation matches to determine who stays in Super rugby. A bit unfair to give teh Lions such short notice but in the end the most workable solution.
 
Last edited:
Well, I think it was the most likely option.

Agreed. But with SARU you never know. Common sense seems to always be the least likely option with them. I just hope the Lions saw it coming and have contingencies in place or sue the SARU for damages.
 
What's interesting of that article is that, it's once again a premature decision that has been made, with other factors that has been postponed. Qualification, Meeting with Sanzar, etc etc...

Why was it now so important to make this public? why not just wait until all the meetings were done and dusted and all the relevant parties notified of the total Final decision??
 
What's interesting of that article is that, it's once again a premature decision that has been made, with other factors that has been postponed. Qualification, Meeting with Sanzar, etc etc...

Why was it now so important to make this public? why not just wait until all the meetings were done and dusted and all the relevant parties notified of the total Final decision??

They are probably testing the water and buttering the Lion's bunghole at the same time.
 
I think there is a few problems obsticles in the way. Lets look at the obvious first.

Lets forget about the Kings. They are already confirmed. Nothing can be done about it. They are there. I do not support that decision but lets forget any options that includes them.

We are sitting with 5 other franchises. Making the Cats again. Well one thing is certain. SA rugby supporters and the Unions have a long history and the rivalry can't really be described unless you are a South African and have come along since the 80's or earlier or later. But it is not teams that were glued together once a year for a competition but teams and supporters going at each other for ages. Tell a WP supporter to support the Bulls or vice versa. They don't click. Same as between the old Transvaal and the Freestate. You don't put a jappie and Freestater together. They hate each other. Fans don't like each other never have never will. So all NZ and Aussie coaches commenting about our derbies or trying to make statements about it hush. You do not know what your talking about or experienced it.

Then the other thing

sa-giveaway-map.gif

That is a map of South Africa. There are already two team combined into 1 and thats the Freestate and Griquas. Check the distance between Osfontein I mean Bloemfontein and Joh'burg. That is 700km's almost. Pretoria sits about 40 minutes drive from Joh;burg yet we are talking about putting Lions and Cheetahs together. Why don;t they put the Bulls and Lions together? Again the rivalry it will not work. So why should it ever work with the Cheetahs and rob either franchise of financial gain?

Freestate is as important in SA as WP/Bulls rivalry due to the talent they produce (which normally end up being poached by the Sharks) and the fact they havee some excellent schools who poaches talent of the platteland. So we can't have a competition without them.

The problem is that they made the Kings a EP thing and for that region specific. They should have entered 4 teams and take the left over players and made a whatever XV with them and played at where the stadiums get filled. Wonder how Border and the other provinces in the region feel playing under the EP name. And no Goosen played for Grey College. Being born somewhere doesn't make you a poached talent from that region.

If we look at the setup of the Super Rugby there is one country that get benefit out of it. That is Australia. They get their own mini league where we lose our Currie Cup so to speak. Yet 60 percent of all the viewers come from South Africa. We are responsible for most of the income in this competition and I think its time we behave like it and do a bit what we want. What is good for our rugby. We can't do that now as there is a contract that was already signed. But next time they should read and look at the bloody cause and who it has to the most benefit for before signing anything. We do not need Super Rugby at all. We can take out 60 percent viewer total and let them watch Currie Cup and it will be without the tantrums of NZ and Aus.
 
sa-giveaway-map.gif

That is a map of South Africa. There are already two team combined into 1 and thats the Freestate and Griquas. Check the distance between Osfontein I mean Bloemfontein and Joh'burg. That is 700km's almost. Pretoria sits about 40 minutes drive from Joh;burg yet we are talking about putting Lions and Cheetahs together. Why don;t they put the Bulls and Lions together? Again the rivalry it will not work. So why should it ever work with the Cheetahs and rob either franchise of financial gain?

Freestate is as important in SA as WP/Bulls rivalry due to the talent they produce (which normally end up being poached by the Sharks) and the fact they havee some excellent schools who poaches talent of the platteland. So we can't have a competition without them.

The problem is that they made the Kings a EP thing and for that region specific. They should have entered 4 teams and take the left over players and made a whatever XV with them and played at where the stadiums get filled. Wonder how Border and the other provinces in the region feel playing under the EP name. And no Goosen played for Grey College. Being born somewhere doesn't make you a poached talent from that region.

If we look at the setup of the Super Rugby there is one country that get benefit out of it. That is Australia. They get their own mini league where we lose our Currie Cup so to speak. Yet 60 percent of all the viewers come from South Africa. We are responsible for most of the income in this competition and I think its time we behave like it and do a bit what we want. What is good for our rugby. We can't do that now as there is a contract that was already signed. But next time they should read and look at the bloody cause and who it has to the most benefit for before signing anything. We do not need Super Rugby at all. We can take out 60 percent viewer total and let them watch Currie Cup and it will be without the tantrums of NZ and Aus.

actually the distance from bloem to jhb is 400km...just for the record :)
 
At the end of the day promotion/relegation is the best solution rather than creating some unholy union like what the 'Cats' were.

What I would like to see in the future (along with a shitload of other things but that's another thread) is the planned promotion/relegation being not just the right of the 6 S15 franchises (Kings included and the Lions will have the right to challenge at the end of 2013) but rather having the top Currie cup team not in Super rugby challenge the bottom SA team in Super rugby.

That would bring back some significance lost to CC rugby while creating the opportunity for a team like Griquas to qualify for SR. Those teams not currently in SR (in 2013 would be Border, Griquas, Lions-who else?- SWD, pumas, leopards, griffons) could make their players available to those who are much like the Qriquas are doing for the Cheetahs at the moment.

PS; please bring back the provincal names then and drop the franchise name or at the very least, add the province as a prefix; WP Stormers, KZN Sharks etc.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Top