Brian Moore-WHY?

[Macsen]

I like Moore as a pundit, he's always honest enough, and the banter between him and Butler is class. He was talking ******** about Cornish being seperate from all other languages though. If you speak Welsh or Breton you can understand half of it.

 

[Prestwick]

Isn't Welsh descended from the Ancient Britons who used to inhabit the British Isles before first the Celts and then the Romans rampaged onto the scene?

 

[Macsen]

Isn't Welsh descended from the Ancient Britons who used to inhabit the British Isles before first the Celts and then the Romans rampaged onto the scene? [/b]

No it came from Proto-Celtic, a language spoken on the continent and carried over to Britain by the Celts. It also picked up a lot of latin words from the romans, which is why some words in Welsh and English are similar (car, for example, from the latin carra).

For future use by Moore:

Proto-Celtic ------ Gaulish (spoken in France by Asterix and chums, branch extinct)
>>>>>>>>|------- Brythonic ---- Welsh
>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>| ------ Cornish
>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>| ------ Breton
>>>>>>>>|-------- Goidelic -------- Irish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>| ------- Scottish Gaelic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>| ------- Manx

 

[shtove]

Celtic only refers to the languages and what was quite a sophisticated system of industry and trading. We really have no idea about a celtic race. So reference to the Celtic nations is a load of arse.

Both islands presumably had their aboriginals after the ice age, but after that there weren't all that many population shifts, and no real evidence of celtic invasions (although I'm not sure about Wales). The Britons certainly were pushed in to Wales later on, around the same time as the Irish invaded Scotland and the Saxons/Danes took over the north and east of England. After that the only big shift has been Scots planters in to Ulster.

There is an ancient origin myth that Ireland was invaded by the Basques, displacing the aboriginals. Everyone thought it was nonsense until recently, but genetic research seems to back it up in the west of the country.

Plenty for Butler and Moore to sink their teeth in to - preferably during extra time at the next RWC final.

 

[Macsen]

Celtic only refers to the languages and what was quite a sophisticated system of industry and trading. We really have no idea about a celtic race. So reference to the Celtic nations is a load of arse.[/b]

Even if there was a celtic race there isn't any more, this is an interesting article on that point, but I think the 'celtic nations' label is a more a reference to the cultural and linguistic roots that Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and parts of England and France, have in common.

 

[shtove]

Yeah, I read the article. Sooooo confusing - only lesson is we're all people! Profound, but then again not really.

Of all the languages Welsh is the stand out example - gaelic is becoming a relic, and the rest are faint memories.

Still, the English aren't going away any time soon - and they're always good for a laugh.

 

[An Tarbh]

No wonder the Irish language is struggling when people call it football :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

[Macsen]

Of all the languages Welsh is the stand out example - gaelic is becoming a relic, and the rest are faint memories.[/b]

Well the success of a language depends a lot on the attitude of people towards it. People were saying that Welsh was dead for years and that only old people spoke it until the 2001 census showed that the number of speakers had actually risen and that about 40% of speakers were under the age of 20.

Irish is the most spoken Celtic language of them all but not enough has been done to encourage the people who can speak it to do so. The difference with Welsh is that the people who can speak it tend to use it as a community language, especialy in the west of the country, and it is tied into the Urdd society for children, th national Eisteddfod event, and has strong links with rugby. But unfortunately it seems that with the Welsh language most efforts are now geared towards teaching it to the children it classrooms with little done outside school to promote it. The end result is that it is thought of as a chore rather than a gateway to an unique and rewarding culture and when they get to drop it at GCSE level most kids never look back.

 

[MunsterMan]

It's similar in Ireland. A lot of us leave school with good Irish and never speak it again. I am pretty much fluent and pretty much never use it. It's a shame really but I think they the language is taught is flawed. There is too much emphasis on written work and not enough on actually speaking.

 

[sanzar]

Brian Moore... yeah I had a bit of exposure to him in the six nations and he's hands down the most irritating commentator I've ever heard. All commentators are biased, but Moore just comes across like some pisshead at the pub who's got the shits with everything. In Australia we have Phil Gould in Rugby League as probably his closest equivalent, but the major differences are that Gould doesn't have that whiny quality to his voice, he gets irritated at things, but not for so long that he forgets a game is being played, and lastly, he actually knows what he's talking about.
Seriously, I would rather listen to someone take a sh#t than hear Moore commentate another game...

 

[Prestwick]

So you'd rather prefer one of those bland commentators and pundits like those who plague American sports television?

Moore is great because he cares so much about the game he loves. He does know what he's talking about because for years he's been stating the obvious that Australia's scrum was just smoke and mirrors and lo and behold in 2005, he got the chance to say "told ya so"...twice.

Moore comes across as a character who reflects what we are all thinking. I think you would want someone like Andy Nichol for example, knows his stuff but is very bland, doesn't really say anything that would offend anyone outside of Scotland, etc. Moore on the otherhand gives two fingers to protocol and political correctness and says it how he sees it and that gets a huge amount of respect from me.

 

[MunsterMan]

One thing about Moore, It is nice to have a guy who understands what is going on in the front row. refreshing when you are used to listening to Ryle Nugent and Tony Ward/Ralph Keyes

 

[Prestwick]

One thing about Moore, It is nice to have a guy who understands what is going on in the front row. refreshing when you are used to listening to Ryle Nugent and Tony Ward/Ralph Keyes [/b]

Something which I think is lost in Australia. He's a forwards man and always will have a general dislike of backs, he showed that when talking to Will Carling and Ieuan Evans!

 

[Cymro]

Moore comes across at times as an utter fool and a tool at times!!! Yes he does know what is going on in the front row and yes so do I, it aint hard to see!

Uncle Brian makes some of the most stupid remarks and stupidest comments I have heared in recent times as a rugby commentator / pundit ... call him what you like. He aint great and sometimes his biasedness comes out, which is ok in limitations but not all the time (he aint as bad as Healey and Guscott!!!)

However Uncle Brian does make the effort and commitment to make the game sound more interesting, and for that I give him alot of credit! He is an arrogant twat but he makes listening to a game more entertaining, and for that I give him is due respect!

 

[shtove]

A lot to talk about there.

Irish gaelic is Scots gaelic and vice versa. So the language is not just Irish. But it's not Scots, because that's officially a version of medieval english - unless you're from Ulster, where it's a "separate" language: uniquely and deeply protestant - and dead as a dodo. A pretence for the purpose of "up yours" politics. I love it when things are simple!

Your take on Welsh is similar to gaelic in Ireland - the little uns get a strong dose with state support (probably ending at a younger age), but then it falls away. I guess the same goes for Scotland. The impression I have from Wales is that you have the issue sussed - not ideal, but people actually use the language outside of school to do business and make jokes in the pub.

Does rugby come in to it? In Ireland the GAA gives a lot of support - but there are weird issues over what is "Irish", both for the language and the two gaelic sports codes, and the whole thing sort of turns in on itself.

Rugby is truly international, and also a national sport for you guys. Does that make a difference?

p.s. Sorry, the reply is to Macsen. Brian Moore is brilliant.

 

[Prestwick]

A lot to talk about there.

Irish gaelic is Scots gaelic and vice versa. So the language is not just Irish. But it's not Scots, because that's officially a version of medieval english - unless you're from Ulster, where it's a "separate" language: uniquely and deeply protestant - and dead as a dodo. A pretence for the purpose of "up yours" politics. I love it when things are simple![/b]

Yeah, Scots was also known as "lowland English" and served to highlight the most obvious divide between the Celtic highlands and the largely Anglo Saxon and Scandinavian lowlands. Religion came into it later but by then the dye had been cast. What are seen as wars against England in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries were largely fought between armies of Lowland and Highland armies. Culloden was more the final battle of an informal Scottish civil war that had lasted for centuries.

Today though, Scots is indeed dead as a dodo. However, go to some of the castles around Scotland and you'll see things like Bible verses painted onto roof beams in Latin, Old English, Scots and Gaelic. Really interesting!

 

[sanzar]

So you'd rather prefer one of those bland commentators and pundits like those who plague American sports television?

Moore is great because he cares so much about the game he loves. He does know what he's talking about because for years he's been stating the obvious that Australia's scrum was just smoke and mirrors and lo and behold in 2005, he got the chance to say "told ya so"...twice.

Moore comes across as a character who reflects what we are all thinking. I think you would want someone like Andy Nichol for example, knows his stuff but is very bland, doesn't really say anything that would offend anyone outside of Scotland, etc. Moore on the otherhand gives two fingers to protocol and political correctness and says it how he sees it and that gets a huge amount of respect from me. [/b]

You misunderstand me Prestwick... just because I don't to listen a whiny, lisping retard doesn't mean I want boring political correctness. Moore does not "come across as a character who reflects what we are all thinking", if he did why would a topic such as this have been started (and by one of your fellow Englisman no less)?
There are plenty of commentators out there who are politically incorrect and willing to take pot shots at teams without being as irritating and divisive as Moore.
Murry Mexted in New Zealand always has a fair go at most teams, but he doesn't bleet on and on and on about pointless little things that didn't go his way (seriously when England are playing badly Moore actually becomes even more irritating).
There are tonnes of commentators like that aren't politically correct though... Personally I like to listen to Phil Kearns' commentary because he'll have a shot at the things a team is doing wrong, but mostly he just seems to enjoy sitting back and having a bit of a laugh while he commentates the game. He's Moore's polar opposite in that sense, because whereas Moore sounds like he's going to burst a blood vesel in his brain because of how spastic he goes over the tiniest thing, Kearns never really seems phased by anything and is generally just having a laugh.

<div class='quotemain'> One thing about Moore, It is nice to have a guy who understands what is going on in the front row. refreshing when you are used to listening to Ryle Nugent and Tony Ward/Ralph Keyes [/b]

Something which I think is lost in Australia. He's a forwards man and always will have a general dislike of backs, he showed that when talking to Will Carling and Ieuan Evans!
[/b][/quote]
You really never have heard Kearns commentate then... he's always giving the backs ****.

 

[shtove]

Culloden was more the final battle of an informal Scottish civil war that had lasted for centuries.[/b]

Tricky subject.

Today though, Scots is indeed dead as a dodo. However, go to some of the castles around Scotland and you'll see things like Bible verses painted onto roof beams in Latin, Old English, Scots and Gaelic. Really interesting!
[/b]

Multi lingual bible verses on the roof beams?
"Darling, lie back and think of ... the ethnic diversity that is the cultural heritage of these islands."
"Och, Finlay - you say the sauciest things."
"Aye, but dooon't worry. After the rumpy pumpy we'll surely burn in Hell for eternity."
Rump pump. Rump pump.
"Finlay ... oooh ...you complete me."
"Burn baby, burn! 'Tis almost as good as a Calcutta Cup match in a half empty stadium."

 

[redunderthebed]

Was it Stu Wilson that commentated on a crooked line-out at the ANZ semi-finals, saying "I've know women who can **** straighter than than that standing up." :huh:
[/b]

:lol2tn: That is fooking classic.My most hated RU commentator would have to be Ben Darwin he.is.just.so.stupid. :angry:

 

[An Tarbh]

A few distinctions obviously need to be repeated for some people around here, GAELIC IS NOT WHAT WE CALL THE LANGUAGE IT'S IRISH AND EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD DO SO ACCORDINGLY. Gaelic is a code of football and to see people using that as a synonym for Irish is quite insulting, football may be the language of something, but it's not the language of Ireland.

As for Moore, he's becoming more and more like a chav in the commentary box, there's no doubt he has the passion and the knowledge but his ranting and raving is becoming quite pathetic