Boycott Scotland

[shazbooger]

Lads. Look at the evidence (or lack of).

Your all acting horrified that an innocent man has been allowed home to die.

Even the families of the British victims dont believe he was guilty. The UN appointed observer has consistently called the trial a farce. The key eye witness was rewarded to the tune between $2million and $4million for identifying "the terrorist" in a line up a few days after seeing his picture in a magazine. Key police and CIA officials have since admitted that he was an unreliable witness. An identical detonator found in Germany was ignored (the bomb didnt fly unmanned via Malta). The reported infiltration of the Frankfurt baggage area was ignored. South African officials and US military personnel were pulled from the flight at the last minute. PanAm themselves dont believe he was guilty and their investigation pointed at a rogue CIA funding operation. The list goes on.

Well done Scotland for sticking two fingers up to the Empire of the United States. The rest of you open your eyes, read the evidence for yourselves and stop blindly believing the propaganda.

 

[Prestwick]

Don't forget as well that a year or two before, a United States Navy Destroyer shot down an Iranian Airliner by accident.

While this was a genuine accident, the Islamic Republic of Iran swore revenge on the United States.

 

[edinburgh_gunner]

This is not a matter of whether or not he was guility or innocent, it's a matter of what is set out in Scottish law.

Al-Megrahi was convicted (rightly or wrongly), that is fact.

He has been diagnosed with a terminal illness, and based on medical opnion has than 3 months to live. Fact.

In Scottish law, a prisoner when diagnosed with a terminal illness he/she can submit an appeal for release on compationate grounds. Fact.


Regardless of the moral/intellectual side, Kenny McAskill has considered the case impartially based on evidence from the Scottish Prison service. He made the decision based soley on compationate grounds, and based on those grounds he came to the right decision.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Because the victims of Lockerbie and the Pan Am had 3 months to spend with their loved ones before they died... He should have been left to rot in a cell.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (edinburgh_gunner @ Aug 24 2009, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

In Scottish law, a prisoner when diagnosed with a terminal illness he/she can submit an appeal for release on compationate grounds. Fact.[/b]

Not all prisoners though. Mass murderers and serial killers are exceptions. Surely this guy was a mass murderer? Unless of course they didnt want the conviction squashed and the investigation re-opened.

 

[edinburgh_gunner]

Yes, the crime is taken into account but it doesn't mean they cannot submit an appeal. Mass murders will, more often than not, be denied release if they have shown no remose or anything like that or if they are still a threat to society.


And St. Helens, I can see your point but look at it this way; If we deny Megrahi compation then how are we any different to him/the ones that comitted the crime? Yes, people will say well he comitted a crime and I understand that. However, as has been said so many times, Scotland is not the sort of country whereby we show no compation or mercy - that is not, and never has been, part of our national identity. Compation, and our ability to exercise it, is what sets us apart from the murderes of this world.

There was a suggestion that he should be moved to a hospice and placed under 'house-arrest' if you will. This also wouldn't work. The chief of Strathclyde police recommended against it due to the policing involved - it would be too costly. MacAskil said we need to take into account the other Scots who would be forced to share this hospice with him, and I agree. He is still a convicted criminal, his conviction stands despite release. Why should other, innocent, terminally ill patients be forced to spend their last few weeks/months with him? Futhermore, it is the Scottish taxpayer who would have to fund this, and why should we?

 

[Jethro]

Did we ever get a formal apology from Scotland for the Bay City Rollers?

I've run out of room listing the crimes against humanity committed by the U.S, that latest of which is Stephanie Meyer who deserves to have a tactical nuke thrust up her bum.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Aug 25 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Did we ever get a formal apology from Scotland for the Bay City Rollers?[/b]

:lol:

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Aug 25 2009, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Did we ever get a formal apology from Scotland for the Bay City Rollers?[/b]

Jesus forgot about that. I'm with the Yanks now!

 

[Will]

This is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of.....

The very idea that idiotic Americans (not all of them are idiots of course, but there are some) will boycott Scotland and Scottish goods over the Scottish Executive/Government's decision to release al-Megrahi is hilarious. Just as much as the move to change the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" a few years previously when the French refused to support America's illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (oh of only the UK had done the same....).

I'm not going to get into the whole politics of the thing as I don't doubt for a second there is a lot more that has gone on behind the scenes than the public has been made aware of regarding possible deals etc. Lybia is the most oil rich nation on the African continent for example, though I'm sure that had nothing to do with anything......

Nor am I going to get into the debate about the guilt or innocence of al-Megrahi, other than to say that that whole case and the evidence against the man is flimsy at best. It's quite likely that his appeals against his conviction, which were since repealed by al-Megrahi so as to be able to return home, would have found in his favour.

Simpe fact is, if any person wants to cut off their nose to spite their face and go without their trips to Edinburgh/Loch Ness, or go without their Scotch whisky, then good luck to them. Their sheer ignorance would astound me, but unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me. And the type of American who would boycott travelling to Scotland is probably that American breed who simply doesn't have a passport anyway. American's get a hard press from many people, but I've met many Americans on my travels who are well travelled and who actually able to see past all the media propaganda that is thrown at them 24/7. These are mainly (not always) the Americans who would take the time to travel to Scotland and Europe anyway. The other kind can stay in Kentucky for all I care....

And on the topic of a countries foriegn policy, let's not even begin to talk about that of the US as we would never get off the topic. Needless to say that there's a reason why a lot of people don't think too highly of the USA. Does that mean we should all boycott Coca-Cola, Apple products, Gibson guitars, Ford vehiches......

No, because that would be petty and stupid of us. Get the point?

 

[edinburgh_gunner]

On behalf of the people of Scotland I apologise for the bay city rollers.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

The Bay City Rollers banter is brilliant.

And as someone who follows aviation disasters, and with the Pan Am attack being arguably the most famous plane crash of then all, I think they had him bang to rights.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (edinburgh_gunner @ Aug 25 2009, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

On behalf of the people of Scotland I apologise for the bay city rollers.[/b]

About bleedin time. Right I'm back with the Scots now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Aug 25 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And as someone who follows aviation disasters, and with the Pan Am attack being arguably the most famous plane crash of then all, I think they had him bang to rights.[/b]

Do you also believe there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Aug 25 2009, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.[/b]

So why not use it to re-evaluate the available evidence.

Propaganda is a dangerous thing.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I still await reasons why you think he didn't do it.

 

[Macsen]

I'm sure MacAskill is praying the man dies within the next 3 months. It could be very embarrassing if he lives a few years.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Aug 25 2009, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I still await reasons why you think he didn't do it.[/b]

Yep thats how the judicial system works.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Aug 25 2009, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I still await reasons why you think he didn't do it.[/b]

Right then, well I could start with the comments by the official UN observer on the verdict itself;

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE </div><div class=\'quotemain\'>1. The credibility of a key forensic expert in the trial, Mr. Allen Feraday (UK), has been shattered. It was revealed that "in three separate cases men against whom Mr. Feraday gave evidence have now had their convictions overturned" (BBC, 19 August 2005). Mr. Feraday had told the Lockerbie court that a circuit board fragment found after the disaster was part of the detonator used in the bomb on board Pan Am flight 103. In the first case where Mr. Feraday's credibility had been questioned the Lord Chief Justice had stated that Mr. Feraday should not be allowed to present himself an expert in electronics.

2. A retired Scottish police officer has signed a statement confirming that the evidence that found Al-Megrahi guilty was fabricated. The police chief, whose identity has not yet been revealed, testified "that the CIA planted the tiny fragment of circuit board crucial in convicting a Libyan" for the bombing of the Pan Am jet (Scotland on Sunday, 28 August 2005). The fragment was supposedly part of the timing device that triggered the bomb. The circumstances of its discovery – in a wooded area many miles from Lockerbie months after the atrocity – have been mysterious from the very beginning.

3. Much earlier, a forensic specialist of the American FBI, Tom Thurman, who was publicly credited with figuring out the fragment's evidentiary importance, was later discredited as a forensic expert. A 1997 report by the US Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General found "that in a number of cases other than Lockerbie, Thurman rewrote lab reports, making them more favorable to the prosecution. The report also recommended Thurman be reassigned to a non-scientific job because he lacked a background in science." (American RadioWorks / Public Radio, March 2000)

4. The most recent revelation relates to a mix-up of forensic evidence recovered on the ground in Lockerbie with material used during a series of test explosions in the course of the investigation. In one case, a garment which was damaged in a test explosion was presented as if it was the original garment found on the ground (which was completely undamaged). This garment was supposedly placed in the suitcase containing the bomb. "It casts serious doubts over the prosecution case because certain items that should have been destroyed if they were in the case containing the bomb are now known to have survived the blast." (The Observer, London, 9 October 2005)[/b][/quote]

Article: here</span>


Of course as someone who has avidly followed the trial (as you said) you've already read all of this and other thoeries as to the real bombers (Iranian sponsired palastinians, CIA drug running operation gone wrong, or mix of both). I dont see how his appeal would not have been successful and the entire investifation re-opened. Every key witness in the trial has been discredited, both Scotish and CIA officials involved in the investigation have stated that the evidence was planted and the key witness who identified Al-Megrahi was pretty much a lunatic who changed his story every few hours depending on what he thought he was meant to say (in order to claim the $2million reward).

No one can say for sure if he's innocent as the Government has ensured that he wont appeal however Saying however that you think they had him "bang to rights" is a bit mystifying or extremely naive. The conviction was unbelievably unsafe but politically convenient at the time. Can you really not see this?

 

[DonBilly]

I don't know if you remember but Lybia was condemned by the UN for two bombings, the London - New York PanAm flight but also the NDjamena - Brazzavile UTA flight (170 persons were killed). When Libya sent to the Hague the two persons US and UK were demanding, France was left alone demanding the same for the bombing of UTA flight. The US and UK even pressured France to stop her demands in order to cease as soon as possible Libya boycott and for that they needed France vote at the UN Security Council...