Boks to miss World Cup?

[DC]

i think the quota rule is just utter bullshit

i believe the team should be made up of the best 30 players South Africa has to offer, regardless of the color of their skin.

I'm sure if south africa ever comes across a super talented winger like their own home grown joe rocokoco like player, i'm absolutely sure he would be included in the team and politics would not have to intervene in order to get him in. The bottom line is if you have 30 white guys who are all better than the players of color in that particular position you should take the better player. Same as if you have 30 colored guys who are better than their white counterpart, you should take all 30 colored guys. It shouldnt be a question of race but a question of talent.

 

[shtove]

Look, I believe firmly in transformation in especially rugby, but it should be a natural process, with the necessary support at grassroots level ...
[/b]

What's a natural process? The ABs hothouse players from the Pacific islands. Ireland has a very narrow player base, but manipulates its system top-down. Shouldn't SA just find the best way to get speed, strength and lunatic off-loading ability onto the pitch? Or are you happy to shoot yourselves in both feet?

Furthermore, I believe that mr Komphela is just doing what comes naturally to any politician, be it a SA, US or French politician- he`s trying to make a name for himself ...
[/b]

Never a truer word ...

Actually, I`ll have 8 players of colour- and all on merit- in my World Cup 30-man squad, injuries permitting.
[/b]

Good - but don't underestimate the **** headedness of the system: SA will probably choose to rumble for drop goals, so that they can beat everyone ... except the ABs. Forget that and let atheletes set the pattern.

SA for the RWC! Well, Ireland will have you for breakfast, but ... Yeah!

 

[BokMagic]

But the best way to get speed and athleticism into the team is to get your best athletes to play rugby! If you`ve got a population of 50 million, and you`re just picking from less than 10 million of them, then you`re really shooting yourself in the foot. I firmly believe that we need to get the Africans in SA more interested in rugger, and pick the cream of the athletes to play representatively. Think about it- how many white players in SA has got the pace and natural athleticism of a Brian Habana or a Tonderai Chavanga? Exactly.

This is why transformation should happen IMO- in order to get the black athletes into the backline. Combine the natural African speed and flair in the backline with the traditionally big and powerful Afrikaner forwards, and you have the recipe of the future for SA rugby.

But as I said earlier, it shouldn`t be forced- it should happen naturally. No player should be included in the national side for any reason other than strictly merit. In the lower leagues, like the Vodacom Cup and the Currie Cup, I can still live with quotas- but just don`t call the guys who makes it to international level on merit a quota selection.

 

[Prestwick]

What's a natural process? The ABs hothouse players from the Pacific islands. Ireland has a very narrow player base, but manipulates its system top-down. Shouldn't SA just find the best way to get speed, strength and lunatic off-loading ability onto the pitch? Or are you happy to shoot yourselves in both feet?
[/b]

There is a difference between picking on ability, talent and form, and picking on the basis of the colour of your skin (which is what these politicians are suggesting).

 

[BOKean]

i think it is racist giving black players preference over white players

if i was black and i knew i was in the side because of my skin colour, rather than me being the best player i would feel like crap.

if you cant make the team based on ability then you shouldn't be on the team/squad at all

 

[Gay-Guy]

The Springboks should be exclusive from the quota system. That should be the compromise the politicians should give the SARFU to appease then a bit.

It shows the politicians really do not see the Springbok team as something unique to rugby. To weaken something special as the Springboks is to weaken rugby in South Africa and subsequently South Africa itself. A unified rainbow nation needs the Springboks to be strong....otherwise non coloured/blacks in future generations will hold resentment towards the Govt for turning the Springboks into a second tier rugby playing nation. It may be already heading that way. Countries at the top with strong rugby structures can slip to the second tier.....look what happened to Wales during the 80's!

Let coloureds and blacks play more in the systems but don't give them a free ticket to the Springboks. Springbok coaches I believe won't be biased against coloureds or blacks because ultimately they want the Springboks to win regardless and will do ANYTHING for that to happen. Even if Rassie was coach of the Springboks I would bet he would choose a black man in the team ahead of an Afrikaaner if that black man was a superstar. This is the professional era...people will want to win at any cost cos it is their livelihood as well as their passion.

Ultimately the players and the public are being robbed. No one likes beating a second string team.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year. The only time you don't complain about second stringers is when they beat you. I bet the South African public were slightly disappointed at the NZ Cavaliers tour in 1986 cos the amazing Kirwan was not there. Even years earlier when Maori players were not allowed to tour South Africa, rugby was being robbed because everyone knows the best players are not on show.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
But all this in the name of political expediency?

Whatever happened to the mantra that "sport and politics do not mix"?
[/b]

This Mantra is very naive, so just forget it, just like the former one "Sport and money do not mix".
[/b][/quote]

Thats alright then! Can you go to Dubai and tell the International Cricket Council to drop the sports & politics mantra too so we won't get fined for refusing to tour nations whose regeimes commit numerous human rights abuses, etc (i.e. Zimbabwe).

Actually, while you're at it, can you go to the Elysee Palace and tell Jaques Chirac to stop breaking the EU travel embargo on Zimbabwe ofificals when he inisists on inviting Mugabe and his cronies to Paris for his gatherings of 3rd world tin pot dictators?
[/b][/quote]

Keep cool! Jacques Chirac is certainly not my friend and most the French citizens are ignorant about what's hapening in Zimbabwe and what is their government position with respect to this country. I was not implying anything bad about your mantra. It is naive, that's all. How can you think that Sport and politics doesn't mix? Sports have always been used by politics and sport has always used the politics too. That's as old as sport, just think about the olympics and the rules that applied at the time of the olympics in the former Greece! Think to the boycotts on the Olympic Games from 1976 to 1988. Think to the separation of the Rugby Unions at the time of the apartheid.

My point is that you can wish to separate sport and politics but this doesn't fly. Don't take it personal, but this is naive.

Ultimately the players and the public are being robbed. No one likes beating a second string team.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year. The only time you don't complain about second stringers is when they beat you. [/b]

I am pretty sure that you know why. The two tour dates in NZ overlap with the semi-finals and final of the Top14. You cannot ask players to leave their clubs at so important dates.

 

[Prestwick]

Keep cool! Jacques Chirac is certainly not my friend and most the French citizens are ignorant about what's hapening in Zimbabwe and what is their government position with respect to this country. I was not implying anything bad about your mantra. It is naive, that's all. How can you think that Sport and politics doesn't mix? Sports have always been used by politics and sport has always used the politics too. That's as old as sport, just think about the olympics and the rules that applied at the time of the olympics in the former Greece! Think to the boycotts on the Olympic Games from 1976 to 1988. Think to the separation of the Rugby Unions at the time of the apartheid.

My point is that you can wish to separate sport and politics but this doesn't fly. Don't take it personal, but this is naive.
[/b]

You have seriously misread me my friend

I was merely being sarcastic. :bleh!: I love it how people think that I'm blowing my top or taking things horribly personally when I write about things like this :lol:

Now if I really was a hardman, like say, Mite (which I'm not) and I had taken that personally, I would have said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Prestwick McViolence")</div>

"If I were you DonBilly, I'd be very careful in the next two weeks, because I'm coming to get you with a knife!" [/b]

then you would have had good reason to be hasty in saying that I shouldn't take it personally Sacre Bleu indeed!

My original point was a sarcastic quip that the same people who are instituting these draconian quotas are also the ones who are saying that sport and politics shouldn't mix in the Zimbabwean cricket crisis. More a sense a hypocrisy on their part rather naivety on mine.

 

[DC]

Ultimately the players and the public are being robbed. No one likes beating a second string team.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year.
[/b]

Well i guess that makes the NZRFU a bunch of hypocrites doesn't it?

This second string bullshit is what is making test matches less important overall, the whole purpose of tests are to see where you stand in comparison to another competing nation.

 

[fokkenkak]

apperently he has no power to cancel passports as its in the south african constitution that all south africans are entitled to a passport unless they are a crimnal or owe the goverment money or something along those lines. rugby is not a crime so nothing can be done about it. it would damage the team morale taking players there that do not deserve it

 

[Huckleberry]

Why do our goverment always want to interfear with our rugby!!!!!!!!!!!!![PS I AM SHOUTHING THIS VERY LOUD OUT] :rahh: :rahh: :rahh:

 

[QKXV]

Let coloureds and blacks play more in the systems but don't give them a free ticket to the Springboks. Springbok coaches I believe won't be biased against coloureds or blacks because ultimately they want the Springboks to win regardless and will do ANYTHING for that to happen. Even if Rassie was coach of the Springboks I would bet he would choose a black man in the team ahead of an Afrikaaner if that black man was a superstar. This is the professional era...people will want to win at any cost cos it is their livelihood as well as their passion.


[/b]

I read Bokmagic's posts and wondered how I can word my reply best but above GG already said it, there's no point in letting guys get a free ticket to a bok side. Sure Bokmagic, it is possible to pick a squad that fits the requirements of Komphela et al but the point here is whether that's the best squad to win the RWC in 07. Floors is a hero of mine, and there's going to be lots of rugby coming from him, to be completely honest I believe Floors will captain the Boks in RWC 2011, take this post and frame it because the predicition will be bigger than any Nostradamus ever made. You take the best players to the world cup so you can win it, winning it once in 95 doesn't make you world champs for life. RWC07 is not a conditioning camp for would be world cup winners of the future, it's a competition that demands the respect of all competing nations to send their best, not their best socio-political hogwash.

 

[shtove]

.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year. [/b]

That's pants. Nobody knows who the first string French team is, so how can they complain!

 

[DonBilly]

.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year.[/b]

This will be the second string team since the two tests dates overlap with the Top14 Semi-Finals and Final. This means that the side which travels to NZ next June won't include the players from the best four clubs of this season, for the time being looking to the league table, they are Stade Français, ASM Clermont, Stade Toulousain and the USA Perpignan. If you look to the usual French side which played the 6N this means that the usual locks Nallet, Papé (both with Castres Olympique), Thion (Biarritz Olympique), the hooker Ibañez (London Wasp) and N°8 Chabal (Sale Sharks) will go to New-Zealand. All the other players are from one of these 4 clubs.

 

[shtove]

Chabal may get another chance - yes! I thought Laporte was done with him after the England match.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotemain'>
.....atm the NZRFU is fuming about the possibility of France sending a second string team to NZ this year. [/b]

That's pants. Nobody knows who the first string French team is, so how can they complain!
[/b][/quote]

Oh trust me they know.

New Zealand doesn't sleep, it waits.