Bledisloe One 2020

[Twistie]

me too. but this is why foster stuck to his veterans despite lack of form during superAotearoa. sure cane didnt have form but we need to remember that our players, like the opposition, step up when it comes to ABs.
cane was immense. i thought frizell was anonymous but someone said he'd made shtloads of tackles. if thats the case then i apologise to frizell.
it was that kinda game where we needed absorb a lot of pressure from a well coached , hungry side.
is it wrong that im proud of rennie?

Yes it is wrong lol If you think hes done well then he has. My personal view on rennie changed after the game against the canes where he said a chiefs player couldnt play loosehead so they could have uncontested scrums then had him play that postion against another team later on in the season.I thought it was low underhanded but thats just me .Cant knock his super rugby record (made chiefs a force, won 2 ***les) and watch on with interest to see how his international coaching career pans out.

 

[Larksea]

be honest foster cant make the right decision in a lot of peoples eyes. he plays the Vets and people will say hes ignorant and needs to pick on form, if he picks form people will go nuts for him dropping vets.
The reality is he... well not he we are talking about a selection team here.... They have gone for a balance of experience, form and new blood and thus you can put them down for any reason you want.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i wasn't unhappy about selecting experience...i was annoyed about playing people out of position to fit that experience in and bridge isn't exactly and old hat in the AB's, claiming his experience at 11 outweighed Clarkes standout form is "line ball" from my side of things

 

[Umaga's Witness]

be honest foster cant make the right decision in a lot of peoples eyes. he plays the Vets and people will say hes ignorant and needs to pick on form, if he picks form people will go nuts for him dropping vets.
The reality is he... well not he we are talking about a selection team here.... They have gone for a balance of experience, form and new blood and thus you can put them down for any reason you want.

He's from Waikato, what do you expect?

 

[Larksea]

i wasn't unhappy about selecting experience...i was annoyed about playing people out of position to fit that experience in and bridge isn't exactly and old hat in the AB's, claiming his experience at 11 outweighed Clarkes standout form is "line ball" from my side of things

playing players of position is a feature of the All Blacks that has been a huge success post the 2007 failure, heck we won the WC in 2011 with a 13 on one wing and a fullback on the other wing. But the reality is they aren't out of position, they have the skillset required and they train to play these positions. Also note that positions today are much more fluid than they used to be, fullbacks have been used as an alternate first receiver for years now, it works and isn't going away. on attack players work in pods or mini-teams rather than stick in regimented positions.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

playing players of position is a feature of the All Blacks that has been a huge success post the 2007 failure, heck we won the WC in 2011 with a 13 on one wing and a fullback on the other wing. But the reality is they aren't out of position, they have the skillset required and they train to play these positions. Also note that positions today are much more fluid than they used to be, fullbacks have been used as an alternate first receiver for years now, it works and isn't going away. on attack players work in pods or mini-teams rather than stick in regimented positions.

Mils was more a centre than a fullback, even when playing at fullback he'd play like a centre getting the ball from deep, Rather than hitting the line flat like other fullbacks of the time, and manipulating space to put his wingers away, rather than trying to find holes himself like other fullbacks at the time.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

playing players of position is a feature of the All Blacks that has been a huge success post the 2007 failure, heck we won the WC in 2011 with a 13 on one wing and a fullback on the other wing. But the reality is they aren't out of position, they have the skillset required and they train to play these positions. Also note that positions today are much more fluid than they used to be, fullbacks have been used as an alternate first receiver for years now, it works and isn't going away. on attack players work in pods or mini-teams rather than stick in regimented positions.

i think thats a bit generous, but thats your perogative

yes, often a 15 can play wing but its not a rule and i think Jordie has not really fired there when given the shot, same with ardie at 8 and personally that argument really falls over when there are others that specialise in those positions that are on good form

 

[Alex Anghel]

This is a nice take on the matter on Stuff, to I wholeheartedly agree:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

What do you NZs think?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

This is a nice take on the matter on Stuff, to I wholeheartedly agree:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

What do you NZs think?

i think Reason's done what he often does and take something out of context to make a clickbate headline

Richie took some decent hits but i dont remember him complaining it was unfair or anything...he just kept taking them

basically and article saying NZ will have to play better to win.....not exactly a revelation is it

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think NZ forwards has lost a bit of their grunt and it seems like the tricks of frustrating opposition at rucks aren't part of the current team's setup. There's a bit of "meek and mild" -ness to that pack. They are talented players, that I won't deny, but it seems like the "dark arts" are not present anymore.

And the other issue is NZ's goalkicking has been somewhat of an issue the past year. They are juggling between DMAC, the Barrett Brothers and Mo'unga. But all of them have a tendency to miss a couple of kicks at goal in the match. And in tight affairs, it's usually your goal kicker that helps you win the match, not your try-scorers on the wing.

Plus how many chances will Rieko Ioane get before they realise his mediocrity. Last year he had a rather poor showing and now again, dropping a ball on the goal line, that's just pathetic.

 

[TheOvalBall]

This is a nice take on the matter on Stuff, to I wholeheartedly agree:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

What do you NZs think?

It's only the first match. Give it time. At the very least judge after 4 Bledisloe matches.

 

[Alex Anghel]

I think NZ forwards has lost a bit of their grunt and it seems like the tricks of frustrating opposition at rucks aren't part of the current team's setup. There's a bit of "meek and mild" -ness to that pack. They are talented players, that I won't deny, but it seems like the "dark arts" are not present anymore.

And the other issue is NZ's goalkicking has been somewhat of an issue the past year. They are juggling between DMAC, the Barrett Brothers and Mo'unga. But all of them have a tendency to miss a couple of kicks at goal in the match. And in tight affairs, it's usually your goal kicker that helps you win the match, not your try-scorers on the wing.

Plus how many chances will Rieko Ioane get before they realise his mediocrity. Last year he had a rather poor showing and now again, dropping a ball on the goal line, that's just pathetic.

The tight 5 and the pack, in general, lacked a certain level of mongrel in the last couple of years. Moreover, playing people out of position (i.e. Ardie Savea) does not help it either, not to mention that neither of the pack's members is the world's best in his position at the moment.

I don't think NZ's goalkicking was necessarily an issue in this game, given the weather conditions in Wellington, but it was a major factor in implementing that dual playmaker system in the late Hansen era, thus forcing one of the best 10 in the world to move at 15. Sadly, this experiment seems to continue, although it has barely generated positive results.

I keep saying that playing people out of position is not the way forward, I for once cannot understand why moving the best fullback (whichever whom might be) to play wing, as there are other wingers who can play better that particular position.

As for Rieko Ioane, I believe you are wrong, but his attitude certainly does not help his case.

 

[The Seeker]

Both the Wallabies and All Blacks had good opportunities to kick close drop goals in the extra time period, but neither of them took a shot. I don't know why, they were kicking them in Super Rugby Aotearoa and Super Rugby AU. I remember the TV announcers talking about it being unusual but exciting during those earlier SR games. Play to win, not a draw.

 

[Larksea]

Plus how many chances will Rieko Ioane get before they realise his mediocrity. Last year he had a rather poor showing and now again, dropping a ball on the goal line, that's just pathetic.

Probably the best wing in the world in 2017-18 so "mediocrity" is a bit harsh.... His form and fitness completely vanished last year and became one of the many reason the AB's had to almost totally reinvent themselves right before a world cup. But he seems to have his pace and intensity back this year and is playing much better but is he one of our two best midfielders? IMO no... Yes he blew a try with a schoolboy error but he can't not learn from that, that one hand plant of his is unusual and as much a trademark as Rokocoko's splash but he has to adjust it. I hope the selectors go back to ALB and Goodue. Dropping ALB was a mistake hes probably the best test midfielder in the world tackled at something crazy like 97-98% in tests for the ABs last year and developed this crazy habit of being in the right place at the right time to make critical plays.

This All Black squad is very much a work in progress, I expect a lot of changes to be made before we found something close to our best 23

 

[Twistie]

Yep our forwards need to get better .We had Mcaw and Kaino for so long that even all these years after they finished we are still struggling to find replacements for them makes me realise how great each player was.Anyway we got 3 years to fix it and im positive with the players we have it can be done.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Probably the best wing in the world in 2017-18 so "mediocrity" is a bit harsh.... His form and fitness completely vanished last year and became one of the many reason the AB's had to almost totally reinvent themselves right before a world cup. But he seems to have his pace and intensity back this year and is playing much better but is he one of our two best midfielders? IMO no... Yes he blew a try with a schoolboy error but he can't not learn from that, that one hand plant of his is unusual and as much a trademark as Rokocoko's splash but he has to adjust it. I hope the selectors go back to ALB and Goodue. Dropping ALB was a mistake hes probably the best test midfielder in the world tackled at something crazy like 97-98% in tests for the ABs last year and developed this crazy habit of being in the right place at the right time to make critical plays.

This All Black squad is very much a work in progress, I expect a lot of changes to be made before we found something close to our best 23

Yeah, IMO he's not a better centre than Goodhue, ALB, or Ngani Laumape. But he has a tendency to make silly mistakes, and it keeps on happening.

And as for the wing, I think it would be pretty hard to pick Ioane over Reece, Bridge or Clarke. Especially since Ioane was caught out a couple of times by the Springboks of not retreating well enough when a kick was made behind him.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Yeah, IMO he's not a better centre than Goodhue, ALB, or Ngani Laumape. But he has a tendency to make silly mistakes, and it keeps on happening.

And as for the wing, I think it would be pretty hard to pick Ioane over Reece, Bridge or Clarke. Especially since Ioane was caught out a couple of times by the Springboks of not retreating well enough when a kick was made behind him.

My guess is they were hoping to exploit the fact that Hunter Paisami for the entire super rugby AU would shoot out of the line for the big hit almost always leaving a huge gap for the outside centre if they had some speed to punch straight through as Paisami usually lined up the 12. BUT Hunter didn't do that this game, Rennie clearly told him to play it slow and not try to be the big hero and it worked. Reiko was shut down and had his plate full as hes not exactly a good tackler and 1v1 Hunter wins that duel when he's running the ball.

The All Blacks could beat us for speed i.e Ioane vs Koroibete and Bridge vs Daugunu. But in that scenario they have to risk Koroibete running straight over Ioane or the much stronger Daugunu bullying and shutting down Bridge all game like he did the last one. Jordie is too slow for the wing (even in his try he looked like he was running at a snails pace) NZ was dominant for years because they had large and very fast wingers Sivivatu and Rokocoko. I think they've lost that punch on the outside over the last 5 or 10 years. I'm not sure Sevu Reece would be better or worse than Bridge, but it would be a great battle Reece vs Daugunu.

In no scenario can I see a reason to remove Sam Cane. He may be a concussion magnet but he puts everything into every game he plays. I honestly think Ardie (he's a sook who constantly tries to start a fight with Nick White and he isn't that hard of a runner i.e Daugunu stopping him dead 3 runs in a row and his whopping 8 running meters in the whole game) isn't all he is cracked up to be and maybe it's time to move him to the bench and put the number 8 from the Blues on.

 

[Larksea]

Jordie is too slow for the wing (even in his try he looked like he was running at a snails pace)

He's not too slow, you know hes almost 2m tall right? Hes not going to "look" as fast as someone 20cm shorter than him but he's plenty fast.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

mitch hunt smoking him in the last round of SRA suggest he may be faster than the average players...but not express pace and not as fast as you might hope from someone with that stride

 

[Alex Anghel]

Sorry Larksea, but Jordie is not a winger and should be played where he excelled during SRA, namely at 15. I also wonder if the team wouldn't currently be served better with ALB at 12 and Ioane/Goodhue at 13.

In another train of thought, I hope that South Africa won't pull out of the Rugby Championship, otherwise, the competition will have no meaning at all.