Bath or "The masochists guide to rugby"

[Which Tyler]

Planning Application Details

www.bathnes.gov.uk

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

God help us if it again gets NIMBY'd to hell...

 

[Which Tyler]

With the weekly accusations coming in, I decided to have a look at the clubs competing in the 2024 Premiership quarter finals, to see if there's an obvious, objective difference in the strength/value of the squads.
Cap counts taken from Statbunker, and dated to May 2024. Of course, all players were on contracts signed before May 2024, but backdating things that much was just too much work. If anyone wants those figures, be my guest.
Obviously, this is for last year, but it's easy to track the changes to this year, and worth remembering the the cap increased by £1.5M since last year.

I'll do a Too Long, Didn't Read for the 2nd post.

Northampton's match-day XV had 11 players who had played international rugby, with 144 caps between them, 102 starts. Lawes was their only starter with more than 10 international starts to his name. Lawes also being the only player with 50+ caps.
Northampton's bench had another 4 international players, for 59 caps (38 starts) sitting there – with Sam Matevesi the only one with more than 10 international starts to his name.
Their wider squad also included Callum Braley, who would account for another 15 caps (9 starts), had he been selected.
The entire Northampton squad could count 5 Lions caps – all in the form of Courtney Lawes

Saracens' match-day XV had 13 players who had played international rugby, with 640 caps between them, 473 starts. 11 of those 13 had more than 10 international starts to their names. MVunipola, George, Itoje, BVunipola, Farrell & Daly all with 50+ caps.
Saracens' bench had another 7 international players, for 79 caps (34 starts) sitting there – with Eroni Mawi the only one with more than 10 international starts to his name.
Their wider squad also included Sean Maitland, Alex Goode, Duncan Taylor and Kapeliele Pifeletijr, who would have accounted for another 113 caps (85 starts), had they been selected. Maitland would be another 50+ cap player.
The entire Saracens squad could count 30 Lions caps – between 6 players.

Bath's match-day XV had 12 players who had played international rugby, with 237 caps between them, 161 starts. 5 of those with more than 10 international starts. Russell the only player with 50+ caps.
Bath's bench had another 3 international players, for 40 caps (11 starts) sitting there – with Will Stuart accounting for almost all of that.
Their wider squad also included Hame Faiva who would have accounted for another 10 caps (3 starts) had he been selected.
The entire Bath squad could count 1 Lions cap – for Finn Russell.

Sale's match-day XV had 8 players who had played international rugby, with 104 caps between them, 75 starts. George Ford was their only starter with more than 10 international starts to his name. Ford also being the only player with 50+ caps.
Sale's bench had another 4 international players, for 152 caps (108 starts) sitting there – Agustin Creevy and Tom Curry both having more than 10 international starts. Creevy would be another 50+ cap player.
Sale's wider squad also included Jonny Hill, Manu Tuilagi and Telusa Veainu, who would have accounted for another 91 caps (76 starts), had they been selected. Manu would be another 50+ cap player.
The entire Sale squad could count 4 Lions caps – for TCurry and Tuilagi.

 

[Which Tyler]

TL,DR

Northampton:
1 Lion for 5 caps
16 internationals for 218 caps
1 with 50+ caps
5 with 10-49 caps
Saracens:
6 Lions for 30 caps
24 internationals for 832 caps
7 with 50+ caps
13 with 10-49 caps
Bath:
1 Lion for 1 cap
16 internationals for 287 caps
1 with 50+ caps
9 with 10-49 caps
Sale:
2 Lions for 4 caps
15 internationals for 363 caps
3 with 50+ caps
4 with 10-49 caps

Further thoughts, specifically on Bath:
It's worth noting that, whilst TNT keep referring to Du Toit as "the best prop in the world" he's somehow 3rd-ish choice for South Africa; and at the time of his signing, had 9 caps for 2 starts, aged 27, and wasn't selected for the RWC23. Out of interest, as he's known as a try-scoring prop, he's gone from scoring 12 tries in 130-odd appearances at all levels, to 22 tries in 60-odd since moving to Bath.

At the moment, "Bath are cheating the salary cap" is sour grapes, and doesn't pass the sniff test - especially when so many teams are claiming that they AREN'T spending up to the cap (Newcastle, Bristol, Exeter, Gloucester off the top of my head, Tigers and Saints both with weaker squads than last year, despite the increased cap).

At the moment, "Bath will be cheating the salary cap next year" is a valid concern - because they've announced 4 arrivals, and only 2 (mid-season) departures, and are assumed (and claimed) to be up to the cap this year.

The big test that I can see, will be next summer, when Du Toit and Russell's contracts are up - as are Sam Underhill and Will Stuart.
Du Toit will go from being a fringe international to possibly South Africa's 2nd choice, and genuinely the best prop in the Premiership, deserving a huge pay rise. Russell will have gone from 1 Lions cap to probably 3-4 (but marquee to marquee). Will Stuart will have gone from England's 3rd choice to England's 1st choice and deserving a huge pay rise. Carreras will have arrived (rumoured approximately £450k)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Bath are fine atm but, as you say, going forwards is going to be interesting - they did well out of Worcester/Wasps demise, but if they were signed on panic wages they're going to be wanting big upgrades

Sanderson said most of the increase in salary cap, for us, is going to be retaining our young players who are on first contracts and are now first choice starters and/tier 1 internationals now

Also according to the telegraph Pepper's contract is £40k this season (so he falls under the academy cap) and then £460k over the next two (not sure of the weighting - they just said it's £500k over three years) - got to imagine that was drawn up with the expectation of Underhill leaving but if he doesn't...?
As an aside I always thought back loading contracts wasn't taken into account and that it was averaged out, but can't see anything that confirms that so guess not

 

[Which Tyler]

The Wuss&Wasps player are already off their panic contracts.
Salaries are certainly averaged put for marquee players.
I believe they are (certainlyy used to be) averaged out for everyone in terms of the salary cap.
But I can see there being a loophole in things like academy credits still qualifying, despite back loading. I'd be confident that it would have been cleared with the cap comissioner though, it too obviously feels wrong, even if allowed by the letter.
My understanding would be "Pepper's salary counts as £1,666k a year, but that first year you can put £40k of that outside the cap" but I absolutely reserve the right to be wrong.

Underhill has a contract for next year, so would have been expected to fulfill it when we signed Pepper, but I suspect we're expecting him to be off after that. Of course, we won't be obliged to even offer him one if we need the space.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Salaries are certainly averaged put for marquee players.

Good shout, think that's what I was thinking of