AUNZ Invitational XV v British & Irish Lions

[Leonormous Boozer]

Would love Faz senior to roll that out at the first test selection. "My number 12 is Owen Farrell, I hate form arguements".

Hook it to my veins.

On topic, I think you can take form out of a lot of the arguments but it's important in some cases.

Someone like Keenan, I don't think form matters one bit, he is so beyond proven at test and top club level that he just won't be a negative for the Lions if picked next week. He's against Kinghorn though who is just as proven so that's where it's a form call.

There's also what Farrell values vs other international teams, he's obviously loving working with a top class creative 10 again but outside if that position, work rate and "soft skills" like kicking and passing tend to matter more than hitting a great line or finishing out of nowhere. Was having a chat with a friend recently that the "money ball" approach hasn't really hit rugby yet but I think Farrell has a primitive version of it going the last few years by caring more about the tight metres and keep ball aspects of the game rather than gamebreaking moments.

I also think he's very much going to pick a 23 for 80 min impact rather than the best 15 players and subs. VDF seems locked in as a bench player the way he's been used despite probably being the best 7 and definitely the most Farrell 7 in the squad (he's essentially done what he does every week for Ireland and Leinster, was the top tackler before the last game and very important for any ball retention there's been and suddenly he's out of form).

The nature of the tour is that players are so over-analysed by the press in the warm-ups. They don't matter and the reactions aren't remotely similar to some of the performances to when Leinster or Toulouse stumble a bit while rolling over weaker sides in Europe and their domestic leagues or top international sides doing the same vs lower quality test sides.

All this to say that when the team is picked next week, I expect 3-5 of the players to be those who haven't been deemed to have form and for none of them to really do all that badly, and one or two to be top performers on the day.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Blair Kinghorn has barely played on this tour. I don't know how you could pick him for the first test. He must be much less familiar with the game plan and structures than the other players.

 

[AlRums]

Blair Kinghorn has barely played on this tour. I don't know how you could pick him for the first test. He must be much less familiar with the game plan and structures than the other players.

Actually in Australia kinghorn has had more playing minutes than Keenan or Smith.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Actually in Australia kinghorn has had more playing minutes than Keenan or Smith.

That doesn't make me feel any better. I think Farrell has messed up the fullback selections for this tour. None of the fullbacks in the squad are ready to start a Test match.

 

[McTallshort]

That doesn't make me feel any better. I think Farrell has messed up the fullback selections for this tour. None of the fullbacks in the squad are ready to start a Test match.

Ok but that's entirely Farrell's fault. Keenan was ill, Kinghorn is injured and Smith was never a full back and picked as a FH

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That doesn't make me feel any better. I think Farrell has messed up the fullback selections for this tour. None of the fullbacks in the squad are ready to start a Test match.

Blair Kinghorn amd Hugo Keenan are 60 and 46 test cap internationals respectively and have played to the highest level in the club game. You'd be so comfortable with either after longer breaks out of the game with their nations. They're not playing a different sport out there.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

So kinghorn shouldn’t play cause instead of playing in some blowouts against weak super rugby teams he was playing in one of the most intense rugby matches ever played.

Sorry buddy, you shouldn’t have battled penaud, buros, jalibert, and lbb?

 

[Derpus]

All you comments are pretty negative, critical or bitter. Just enjoy the sport man.

He's English. Might as well call a bird out for flying.

 

[Derpus]

Really looking forward to this one. One of my pet peeves is the idiotic selection criteria that restrict Aussies and Kiwis from playing for each others provincial sides. Good to see some bridges being built.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Class is a thing.

Form is a thing.

And even if you hate the phrase ‘test match animal’ is very definitely a thing too. Some players respond to the big challenges, others are cowed by them.

So how to blend?

Proven experience is a great start. And I’m sure that’s what Farrell will go for in the first test.

Form is more tricky. I guess if a player’s actively been bad over the course of 2 or 3 warm ups - beaten in scrums, missing tackles, dropping high balls or whatever that has to come into play and is a bit different to just being a bit quiet against the M Mouse XV. Similarly there also has to be room for exceptional form to force its way in - Smith and Wallace’s names are now down in Lions folklore but no-one had them down as the test props at the start of the 97 tour.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Class is a thing.

Form is a thing.

And even if you hate the phrase 'test match animal' is very definitely a thing too. Some players respond to the big challenges, others are cowed by them.

So how to blend?

Proven experience is a great start. And I'm sure that's what Farrell will go for in the first test.

Form is more tricky. I guess if a player's actively been bad over the course of 2 or 3 warm ups - beaten in scrums, missing tackles, dropping high balls or whatever that has to come into play and is a bit different to just being a bit quiet against the M Mouse XV. Similarly there also has to be room for exceptional form to force its way in - Smith and Wallace's names are now down in Lions folklore but no-one had them down as the test props at the start of the 97 tour.

All fair. Beirne and Curry aside has there been any outliers though who've forced their way ahead of proven players or totally played their way out?

Tuipuluto v Aki was probably 50/50 and the Sione has comfortably won the shirt. Genge has probably done the same over Porter.

Can't really think of any bolters who no one saw in the test 23 at the start. Pollock is the closest but I don't think he was brought in to **** spiders.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't really think of any bolters who no one saw in the test 23 at the start.

I know he's been in good form for a while but I don't think many thought Bealham would be clear first choice over Stuart (after the 6N he had) and Furlong (after the career he's had)

That said I wouldn't be surprised if Furlong starts the tests anyway, just to add to the form vs testmatch animal arguments

 

[General Melchett]

Furlong is a classic example of a player who has played himself into form. Looked rusty and off the pace in his first game and has improved with each game. I'd be starting him without any concerns.

I suspect Farrell was hoping Beirne would do the same and he has one last chance tomorrow.

 

[McTallshort]

All fair. Beirne and Curry aside has there been any outliers though who've forced their way ahead of proven players or totally played their way out?

Tuipuluto v Aki was probably 50/50 and the Sione has comfortably won the shirt. Genge has probably done the same over Porter.

Can't really think of any bolters who no one saw in the test 23 at the start. Pollock is the closest but I don't think he was brought in to **** spiders.

Daly was before he got injured. No one expected that form when he was selected

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

How would furlong be a better test starter than either Stuart or Finley though. They are playing better and even if Furlong was a test animal (past tense) he’s still not playing better than the other two.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Furlong has played better than Stuart this tour tbf

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Furlong has played better than Stuart this tour tbf

I didn’t think that although till not watched the Brumbies game yet.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I didn't think that although till not watched the Brumbies game yet.

He was very good in it tbf, before that I'd have had him and Stuart neck and neck as neither have looked top draw this tour yet

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Blair Kinghorn amd Hugo Keenan are 60 and 46 test cap internationals respectively and have played to the highest level in the club game. You'd be so comfortable with either after longer breaks out of the game with their nations. They're not playing a different sport out there.

Honestly

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He was very good in it tbf, before that I'd have had him and Stuart neck and neck as neither have looked top draw this tour yet

Watched up until 70 minutes (and bloody sky won’t go past that for some reason) and agree Furlong has played really well.

Also curry still looks off pace, Chessum brilliant and Conan looking on the money as well now.