AUNZ Invitational XV v British & Irish Lions

[General Melchett]

There is going to be a bit of a meltdown if Aki starts and Beirne, Keenan and Hansen all make the 23.

 

[g6mcg]

This isn't midweek so not as much of a test reject team as in previous tours. Even then generally 1-2 players did go on to start in the 1st test.

 

[General Melchett]

Lowe had a bit of a stinker yesterday. Farrell wasn't happy with the failure to ground the ball over the try line (not just Lowe). He was also pointing to his ribs to the medic which is maybe why he didn't dive.

I'd 100% still start Lowe if he's fit but coaches do seem to like Duhan despite his failings.

 

[TopTen2003]

Back row looks exciting in this one. Some real speed and breakdown skills within that combination.

I worry that our Test approach might be too focussed on size whereas the Aussies can be a real handful if you can’t disrupt their ability to play at pace.

I know it’s always a trade off but I think we might need to trust the lineout and go for a bit more dynamism.

Pollock is earmarked for the Test bench IMO (his rapid speed is more of an asset against tired defenders) so for me I’d be looking to find a way for Morgan to start and personally think we should think about Chessum and Conan as one or the other- not both.

Not against

6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Earl

OR

6. J VDF
7. Morgan
8. Conan

But we could debate for hours couldn’t we tbh

 

[Reiser99]

I think it's a mix of squad rotation and players not in the 23 for the first test.

Front row I think is definitely 3rd choice. LCD and Stuart still have an outside chance of the 23 but unlikely.
While Cummings did play well, Ryan has only started one game and that was with Cummings. 4-8 was the planned starting side against the Waratahs except for Morgan, so I thought it likely that Farrell would try it out again.
Halfbacks, White is 3rd choice. I think Fin is in the 23, but Farrell wants him to get as much game time as possible mainly as Marcus hasn't started a single test at 10 and it would be a very brave decision to select Owen after only appearing from the bench once.
Tuipolotu and Jones seems to just be rotating centres. I think Tuipolotu will come off early for Farrell. Jones vs Aki for the bench. Personally, I go Jones.
Back 3 is rotation again. I guess Kinghorn will be fit for the first test, though if Keenan comes off early for Smith, then they might be taking precautions to have at least one fit 15. Wings might make the team, but unlikely.

I said I the general thread, but I feel Marcus has every right to be ****** off that he didn't get at least one start at 10 and it's mainly because Farrell ****** up the 15 situation which means Marcus is now seen as cover for the backline only.

 

[big ginger 8]

I hate form arguments. It's a lot less relevant than most fans think and what it actually means seems to vary too much.

 

[Reiser99]

I hate form arguments. It's a lot less relevant than most fans think and what it actually means seems to vary too much.

I'd say in a settled national side sure. In a mixed team like the lions those who have played well and got up to speed quickest do matter.

Besides the argument just changes from who has the best form to who is the better player and that's generally just as subjective.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd say in a settled national side sure. In a mixed team like the lions those who have played well and got up to speed quickest do matter.

Besides the argument just changes from who has the best form to who is the better player and that's generally just as subjective.

Yeah it does probably have more relevance where the general level should theoretically be higher on average. But these ultimately aren't test matches and there's a million factors going into it that make judging 'form' a very imperfect art.

It's still superfluous to me on many occasions like people saying Keenan is on poor form, he's played what 60 minutes after being injured and sick? I don't think that'll be a reflection of how he'd play in a test tomorrow and his play over the last few years is far more relevant to that. Does that mean he should be over Kinghorn? Well that's a completely different question. I just don't like the framing of it.

Not to harp on with Irish players but they're obviously examples that stick in my mind. Hansen for example has been said to have poor form by many on this board. I disagree, I don't think he's in flying form but I think he's playing overall well. What I feel most people don't like (apart from those who have a chip on their shoulder for other reasons) is his style of winger. Which is fair enough, but say that. Calling it form is far lazier imo. The Irish wingers play very differently to the other nations and him not doing what those fans want or are used to doesn't mean his form is poor.

 

[Grizwald]

Back row looks exciting in this one. Some real speed and breakdown skills within that combination.

I worry that our Test approach might be too focussed on size whereas the Aussies can be a real handful if you can't disrupt their ability to play at pace.

I know it's always a trade off but I think we might need to trust the lineout and go for a bit more dynamism.

Pollock is earmarked for the Test bench IMO (his rapid speed is more of an asset against tired defenders) so for me I'd be looking to find a way for Morgan to start and personally think we should think about Chessum and Conan as one or the other- not both.

Not against

6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Earl

OR

6. J VDF
7. Morgan
8. Conan

But we could debate for hours couldn't we tbh

The Aussie pack is big and the back row big and physical. It feels like a very Steve Borthwick esque to make selections to nullify the opposition strengths rather than just saying this is what we are try and beat us.

If you're Joe Schmidt you're probably thinking to go hard at the breakdown and pepper the Lions with contestable kicks.

 

[TommiG88]

I like that this is the last game until the first test. I think it also helps to show that all positions are still up for grabs, which most of them are.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Borthwick getting excited over the idea of a
10. F.Smith
12. Farrell
15. M.Smith

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Borthwick getting excited over the idea of a
10. F.Smith
12. Farrell
15. M.Smith

13. Slade
14. Malins
Do we have anyone who's played 10 & 11 to complete the back line?

Edit: Lozowski at 14, Malins at 11.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

13. Slade
14. Malins
Do we have anyone who's played 10 & 11 to complete the back line?

Edit: Lozowski at 14, Malins at 11.

9. Ford

 

[Which Tyler]

Do we have anyone who's played 10 & 11 to complete the back line?

09 Ford
10 FSmith
11 Lozowski
12 Farrell
13 Slade
14 Malins
15 MSmith

22 Bailey
23 Donoghu
Just need a #21 (or are we accepting a 6:2 bench?)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Just need a #21 (or are we accepting a 6:2 bench?)

Tom James probably the only real option for a guy who has actually started games at both 9 & 10. After that… Will Becconsall?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Borthwick getting excited over the idea of a
10. F.Smith
12. Farrell
15. M.Smith

 

[Which Tyler]

Tom James probably the only real option for a guy who has actually started games at both 9 & 10. After that… Will Becconsall?

Spencer has certainly moved there mid-match, but never starting

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tom James probably the only real option for a guy who has actually started games at both 9 & 10. After that… Will Becconsall?

Was it England that John Cooney was threatening a switch to, think he's played a bit at 10? You can have him for this noble project.

 

[big ginger 8]

Was it England that John Cooney was threatening a switch to, think he's played a bit at 10? You can have him for this noble project.

Scotland. Suited the chip on his shoulder in fairness.

 

[Saintjay]

I hate form arguments. It's a lot less relevant than most fans think and what it actually means seems to vary too much.

Would love Faz senior to roll that out at the first test selection. "My number 12 is Owen Farrell, I hate form arguements".