Argentinian Rugby

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Nada que perder!
Ya esta, arriesgar y esperar.

 

[Horacito]

No puedo creer que otra vez Gonzalo de medio, no lo puedo creer

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Viste el try que se comio Bert? No entiendo, te juro que no lo entiendo. Era el unico lugar que tenia que cubrir (si Smith amaga y se va para adentro tiene a todos los 3/4s en frente). Solo tenia que cubrir entre su posicion los fwds, 1 metro. UN METRO!!!! Y sabe que Smith es de mandarse, o deberia saberlo. Y aun sabiendo todo eso se comio el amague.
No cambia en nada el resultado final, pero me rompen las pelotas las cosas asi. Y otra, yo se que Boffelli con la pelota en mano es bueno, pero defendiendo es un desastre, da lastima. Debe tener el 50% de sus partidos como FB y debe tener 1, maximo 2 tackles salvadores en toda su carrera. Jugas contra los ABs, tienen 2 wines fuertes, y pones un win que no tacklea...

El resto, si hay cosas que no salen, o si el rival es mejor, y... son cosas que pasan. Pero me da bronca regalar espacios y oportunidades desde la formacion. Me acuerdo como si fuese ayer: contra gales, 1er tiempo. 35 tackles hechos, 14 pifeados. No te digo contra una Francia/Sudafrica/NZ en un dia inspirado. Contra Gales. Si pifeas el 30% de los tackles necesitas un pequeño milagro para ganar partidos contra Tier 1.

Y otra. Salvando el partido contra Japon, Mateo carreras no paro de hacer knock ons. No exagero. Le pone voluntad defendiendo, tiene cintura y es rapido, pero tiene manteca en las manos. 20 veces se le cayo la pelota. Sos wing, no te llegan TANTAS. Si no las cuidas no sirve.

Y sueno critico, quizas, pero lo que menciono son cosas basicas. No pifear muchos tackles, no hacer boludeces y que no se te caiga la pelota. No estoy hablando de confundirse en una jugada preparada de 5 fases.

 

[Horacito]

Pero es que son cosas que no pueden pasar.
Yo estoy dudando del ciclo que se viene. No podés ganar con errores de este tipo. Gonzalo ya no debería jugar para los pumas, perdón que lo diga. Me da pena tener razón porque tuvo años muy buenos en jaguares, pero ya pasaron. Es lento, es malo, no defiende y tampoco aporta mucho. Momento de cambiar.
A mi mateo me parece óptimo, pero este tipo de fallos que tiene son desesperantes si.
Bofelli es malo en defensa pero al menos soluciona en ataque, y desde que perdimos a tucu es nuestro finalizador máximo, nos falta alguien tipo bautista delguy o alguien así que este año se cayó de la lista.
Yo en general encuentro que nos faltan prospectos y es que el covid nos ha hecho mucho daño, necesitamos jaguares de vuelta porque esta vez tuvimos suerte con el sorteo nomás.
Y con respecto a cheika, mis sentimientos están encontrados. Es un buen entrenador, pero el partido de ayer se podría haber perdido con márgenes más dignos si hubiera puesto al tute y a cubo de starters, incluso con la defensa del segundo en mente.
Vamos a ver si por lo menos quedamos terceros

 

[Horacito]

Bueno, ahora que ya pasó lo peor. ¿Alguien quiere valorar el ciclo Cheika? ¿Alguien quiere poner nuestros mejores prospectos para ilusionarnos?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I cannot say anything I have seen from Argentina this year has made me at all positive about Contempomi's input as attack coach and he is guaranteed to replace Cheika after this match? On what basis? Such a pity Quesada ended up in Italy.

Cheika acknowledges Contepomi’s role in getting Argentina to World Cup semi-final

Argentina head coach says the match is a ‘great opportunity’ for his team, and ‘we’re doing everything we can to try and take it’

www.irishtimes.com

 

[Horacito]

I cannot say anything I have seen from Argentina this year has made me at all positive about Contempomi's input as attack coach and he is guaranteed to replace Cheika after this match? On what basis? Such a pity Quesada ended up in Italy.

Cheika acknowledges Contepomi’s role in getting Argentina to World Cup semi-final

Argentina head coach says the match is a ‘great opportunity’ for his team, and ‘we’re doing everything we can to try and take it’

www.irishtimes.com

Yeah, none of us is really happy about it either

Quesada's loss is massive, I also agree with you, if anything for his season coaching Jaguares

my honest opinion:

this is a transitional period, and the UAR is acting accordingly
our big bet was in 2019, with Matera, Cordero and Sanchez getting there with full potential and all that, Jaguares' backing up and the SR final, but that turned super ugly due to mismanagment by the UAR by making Ledesma HC and weak leadership (Matera's blown up and social pressure to put him aside)

Now comes hard times for argentinean rugby: we have some interesting prospects (Rubiolo is 20, literally) but truth is COVID had a huge impact on the intermediate generation (1995-98) and we don't have the backroom to field a team competent enough to compete in RC. To be honest, I'm curious as to which team we can field in a year, even if we persevere with Santi Carreras.

I personally don't like Felipe ATM, but it is true that he depends on Cheika.
I know him a bit and know how he is, this is what he said last week:

"This match means that we were within the best 4 in this tournament. not the best in the world, we are there and we deserve to be there, but we're not better than the rest of the teams within the top 6"

I personally think Felipe is a realist: and I don't think Mike Cheika is; Felipe is ready to accept that we got lucky and we need to make some changes, Cheika is not. I think Felipe, for many reasons, could be the kind of coach who doesn't pitch his players agains the referees (I was ashamed to see all of our players talk to the reff so much) , or the torunament, or anything othe than himseld, mostly because I've seen him be like that since I was 12 and he was playing in England. Maybe it should be Juan Fernández Lobbe in 8 years and not him, but for now we need someone.

What we really need is to fill that void we have, honestly, it is huge. We field 20-23 year olds and 34 year olds in key positions like it's nothing

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I agree a LOT with the above. I always have the feeling Cheika has this plan in his mind and if he doesn't have the players to pull it off well, there's this little voice in his head that goes: '**** it, we'll do it anyway'. That is mental imo. Don't get me wrong, when it works it's entertaining but it seldom does (against T1 op). Quesada's approach is (or at least was) much simpler: we minimize unforced errors and try to play to our strengths or our opponent's weaknesses.

I like Cheika but he is not the coach we need.

 

[Horacito]

Yeah that's another thing: perseverence on obvious mistakes, despite everyone noticing them

However, this is a good moment to try and asess his era:

-I do think, overall, that it has been positive, in the end, we needed someone to close the gap before the WC and he did that with some good rugby last year and by pushing through an easy draw in the WC
-I do think that once his ideas run its course, he doesn't manage to evolve his vision, he doesn't progress
-I don't know how he manages the group, but for the life of me I can't fathom why some players seem to have their jersey guaranteed, even if they play awfully

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I've got mixed feelings, to be honest. I think his tenure achieved decent results, granted, but I just think those results are seriously embellished by the WC draw. Bit of a hallo-captain-obvious statement, i know.
I ask myself this: if 2019 pumas were to face 2023 pumas, am I confident enough to assert the latter would come on top? I am not. One reached the semis and the other couldn't make it past the group stage.

I am not sure how to put it into words, to be honest. I think the best way would be: when the pumas play, I consistently fail to understand what they are trying to do. I really have no idea what their game plan is about. This has nothing to do with results. Jaguares 2016 had an appalling season, they failed to execute their plan again, and again, and again. But everyone understood what their plan was about, and they had the tools to pull it off. Those tools were just not sharp enough.

Hard to prove conclusively but i honestly believe 2019 was a pivotal year for us and we blew it. We managed to destroy a 4-year plan with just a handful of very poor decisions.

 

[Horacito]

I've got mixed feelings, to be honest. I think his tenure achieved decent results, granted, but I just think those results are seriously embellished by the WC draw. Bit of a hallo-captain-obvious statement, i know.
I ask myself this: if 2019 pumas were to face 2023 pumas, am I confident enough to assert the latter would come on top? I am not. One reached the semis and the other couldn't make it past the group stage.

I am not sure how to put it into words, to be honest. I think the best way would be: when the pumas play, I consistently fail to understand what they are trying to do. I really have no idea what their game plan is about. This has nothing to do with results. Jaguares 2016 had an appalling season, they failed to execute their plan again, and again, and again. But everyone understood what their plan was about, and they had the tools to pull it off. Those tools were just not sharp enough.

Hard to prove conclusively but i honestly believe 2019 was a pivotal year for us and we blew it. We managed to destroy a 4-year plan with just a handful of very poor decisions.

Absolutely this

We are living the aftermath of a disaster, we're like the weimar republic of rugby

yesterday's match against the pommies felt like destiny. Two teams who failed in 2019, with dfferent roads leading to this WC for sure, but not entirely out of the previous cycle

I do think we need a new 4 year plan, which means this next couple of years will be real tough, and I mean real tough like in 2011-2014, we need to plant seeds and get new guys in key positions, we need to buid a new identity

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

Any thoughts on Felipe Contepomi as head coach next ? Maybe he should appoint Mario Ledesma as his assistant. Some form of continuity would be good.

 

[Horacito]

Any thoughts on Felipe Contepomi as head coach next ? Maybe he should appoint Mario Ledesma as his assistant. Some form of continuity would be good.

not looking good, our attack sucked major balls this RWC: no options, no imagination, the same old movements all the time like refried beans

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

 

[Horacito]

estuve toda la semana viendo lo de sanchez y lo de imhoff, la verdad que impresionante

 

[Horacito]

Bueno, con el retiro de creevy esta tarde yo creo que vale la pena ver, como si fuera la reina de inglaterra, qué tipo de legado deja en sus casi diez años de protagonismo absoluto. Es decir, Creevy ya estaba en el mundial de 2011, pero hasta que llega Hourcade no aparece como protagonista al finalmente retirarse Ledesma y hacer la transición Phelan
desde luego, diez años de cambios, en el que han pasado cuatro entrenadores contando al actual. Diez años en los que el rugby argento se ha transformado en muchos sentidos, en que ha habido un equipo de SR... a ver si un tema jugoso hace que alguien aparte de nosotros quiera decir algo
como primer aporte, a mí me parece que fue un capitán que jugaba mucho con el tema de las redes sociales. El primer capitan para afuera, mostrando un poco la intimidad del equipo y, como consecuencia, también las grupetas y las facciones que había dentro del plantel, lo cual pudo haber tenido algunas consecuencias no muy positivas.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

A mi me cae bien Creevy. Muy bien. Me parecio muy flojo lo que le hicieron el ultimo partido, rozando la falta de respeto. No se merecia eso.
Ahora, pan queso, me quedo con Montoya toda la vida.

Creevy tiene 2 records si mal no recuerdo: cantidad de partidos y cantidad de partidos como capitan. Creo que el de mas partidos lo pierde seguro y el de mas como capitan si no lo pierde pega en el palo. Creo que la historia lo va a dejar bien parado. Fue el primer capitan de una franquicia argentina en SR. Nadie le va a sacar eso.

Entiendo lo que decis sobre la capitania, su personalidad y lo de las redes sociales. No recuerdo nada puntual y, de nuevo, a mi me cae bien. Nuestro (rugby argentino) punto mas flojo durante su era, para mi, no fueron los jugadores. Fueron la UAR/partes de los cuerpos tecnicos.

 

[Horacito]

Yo creo que la calidad humana de los jugadores se ha visto esta semana pasada con el ejemplar comportamiento de Sánchez e Imhoff. Estoy cien por cien de acuerdo que el problema principal fue la UAR a la hora de manejar temas de jugadores y sobre todo el asunto de la franquicia SR y los pumas simultáneamente, que dio resultados esperados.

En total, seguramente ha sido el capitán que ha llevado el período de transición más convulso (en el sentido de grandes cambios en el rugby nacional) de la historia reciente del seleccionado, y creo que va a quedar tal cual, como un histórico. A mi lo del sábado me pareció vergonzoso, encima que juli montoya no estaba teniendo su día como para no poder darle 15min a uno de los mejores hookers de la historia del país que había tenido buen impacto.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Muy bien Albornoz no? No solo por el pie y por el tackle que metio, pero aun cuando veniamos abajo en puntos, me daba la sensacion de que jugabamos mucho mas fluido con la pelota en las manos.
Y mira que a mi Carreras me encanta pero la verdad que Tomas la rompio.

 

[Horacito]

Tremendísimo, si, acabo de terminar el partido y tengo muchas impresiones pero necesito digerir un poco más antes de poder decir todo, entre ello que Albornoz verdaderamente se ha mostrado y merece que la semana siguiente se le de una oportunidad
viste como duele el partido de la semana pasada? es un momento crucial para el rugby argentino en el plano internacional y la victoria de la semana pasada nos ponía seguro en el segundo lugar del torneo por primera vez
bueno, ahora a pensar en como rascarle una a los bokke, pero lo veo extremadamente difícil