Are Munster "worthy" champions?

[sean43]

Just like Gavin Henson, at full fitness he is one of the best centres in the world. Someone who was voted u21 World player of the year is not just someone who underperforms.

As for my overall topic about Munster, well I did want to garner some more opinions from non Munster fans but its a touchy subject all the same.

 

[Bullitt]

He is though... Those rare glimpses of something nspecial are outnumbered at a ratio of 100:1 by stupid comments ("I'm suicidal" or "I was injured, I want to retire"), media outbursts and controversy (I.E. His wife being dumb or flashing his willy at families on trains), ****-Poor performances in crunch games (jogging alongside Dan Carter, 2005) or generally being a cock.

So much talent, so much disappointment.

 

[Prestwick]

I still haven't seen anything to justify the one kick wonder's place on the plane to South Africa. The guy has continually underperformed and embarrassed since 2005 and his ability to handle himself in a crunch game is suspect at best.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 8 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I still haven't seen anything to justify the one kick wonder's place on the plane to South Africa. The guy has continually underperformed and embarrassed since 2005 and his ability to handle himself in a crunch game is suspect at best.[/b]

Not that I'm saying anything good about Johnny Wilkinson at all in saying this but;

Why do people always tag players who land "match winning drop goals" as "one kick wonders" etc.?
Henson does a lot of good work around the field, sure, he's known for kicking a little more than he should but cut the guy some slack. We don't exactly have a massive back-catalogue of inside centers and he's probably one of the best we have to hand. Cut the boy some slack.
Behavior like this is on par with blowing things like this all out of proportion...like say, Johnny Wilkinson's drop goal in the RWC03 final.

In short, get a grip.

Editl; I thought you were talking about ROG but I realized you were talking about Henson...I think.

 

[monkeypigeon]

When I look back in ten years all I can see myself thinking is:

"Henson, that guy had alot of potential. Shame he was a bit of a *** and never reached that potential day in day out"

Compared to memories of other players like BOD and Greenwood who'll have both given a decade of solid rugby without ever being gobby (much) or consistantly disappointing. In all honesty, I think Shanklin will be remembered as a centre who gave Wales great service ahead of Henson.

But maybe he'll prove us all next season. I hope he does so we can stop this conversation from popping up in every thread.


and by the way Dundeesmiffy, I don't think anyone will remember Wilkonson just for his MW wnning dropgoal. I think most have a horrrrible (but wonderful) memories of Wilkonson doing horrible (but wonderful) things to their national teams and crushing their hopes for about 5 years.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 8 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still haven't seen anything to justify the one kick wonder's place on the plane to South Africa. The guy has continually underperformed and embarrassed since 2005 and his ability to handle himself in a crunch game is suspect at best.[/b]

Not that I'm saying anything good about Johnny Wilkinson at all in saying this but;

Why do people always tag players who land "match winning drop goals" as "one kick wonders" etc.?
Henson does a lot of good work around the field, sure, he's known for kicking a little more than he should but cut the guy some slack. We don't exactly have a massive back-catalogue of inside centers and he's probably one of the best we have to hand. Cut the boy some slack.
Behavior like this is on par with blowing things like this all out of proportion...like say, Johnny Wilkinson's drop goal in the RWC03 final.

In short, get a grip.

Editl; I thought you were talking about ROG but I realized you were talking about Henson...I think.
[/b][/quote]

I'm not being hysterical but I am being realistic. The guy hasn't earnt his place on the plane apart from having a reputation for "having potential." He hasn't delivered on that potential. There are inside centers who have delivered such as Riki Flutey god even Tom Shanklin.

If we're going to win the Lions we have to be realistic.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 8 2009, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

...Riki Flutey...

If we're going to win the Lions we have to be realistic.[/b]

If we are going to "win the Lions" I'd prefer they were British.

 

[Prestwick]

He's as British as Mike Catt or Matt Stevens or Dan Carter..acencestry is a sop if you want be pedantic then you judge the person on where they were born not where their grandmother was born. This is 21st century Britain not 1930s Chicago and this is the Lions not the bloody Sopranos.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

It'd still be nice to have a little integrity in the Lions set up, my main issue with Flutey is that he played professional international representative rugby previously (The NZ Maori, against the Lions as well) and that in itself - as far as I'm concerned - should make him ineligible for the Lions (and England for that matter). I wasn't pleased when he started playing for England and I'll be less pleased when/if he plays for the Lions.

I know Scotland have a wealth of players that weren't born here, but to me Flutey is in a different boat for the aforementioned reasons. At least admit you can see where I'm coming from.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 9 2009, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It'd still be nice to have a little integrity in the Lions set up, my main issue with Flutey is that he played professional international representative rugby previously (The NZ Maori, against the Lions as well) and that in itself - as far as I'm concerned - should make him ineligible for the Lions (and England for that matter). I wasn't pleased when he started playing for England and I'll be less pleased when/if he plays for the Lions.

I know Scotland have a wealth of players that weren't born here, but to me Flutey is in a different boat for the aforementioned reasons. At least admit you can see where I'm coming from.[/b]

i can see where you're coming from, but if your wishes and desires were to be fulfilled then I'll have thom evans back. not that he's good enough to get in the england team, just that i don't want him available for scotland.

I think the rules on residency are too lax, and it should be 5 years. But even if that was the case, the likes of Vainikolo and (maybe in the future) Shontayne Hape would be eligible. Which is fine by me, because England is a country that welcomes immigrants, and I don't see why they should have to wait for their chilren in the next generation before their genes are considered 'english' enough to play for their adopted country.

Fact is, every major rugby team has in recent years had someone with a controversial nationality. No exceptions, because even the Island nations who have players 'poached' by others go on to selct sides where many are born and bred in NZ anyway.

You can't call Flutey on this one, because that's putting everyone's discrepancies onto his shoulders. It's a consistency of international sport, and will always remain, because nationality itself is very difficult to define since the idea of a 'nation' is a human concept anyway.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

I understand what you mean, I think we should agree to disagree.

 

[Daylightfire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Apr 8 2009, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just like Gavin Henson, at full fitness he is one of the best centres in the world. Someone who was voted u21 World player of the year is not just someone who underperforms.

As for my overall topic about Munster, well I did want to garner some more opinions from non Munster fans but its a touchy subject all the same.[/b]

Sorry to drag this on but can we stop using Someone who was voted u21 World player of the year is not just someone who underperforms as proof that GH is great / Should be going to SA / Is the best Centre in the world because that was a hell of a long time ago, he's now 27 and has done pretty much sod all to live up to this reputation.

He will always be remembered as someone who never quite reached his potential and was a bit of a *** as well,, but he did have a lovely tan

 

[sean43]

This "one kick" against England annoys me quite a bit, if you look at his game - the touch and his vision then he is by far one of the best centres in the UK. His record for Wales is fantastic and he is one of the certs for a starting place (when he is not injured)

Now he is a bit of an idiot, but what it comes down to is his lack of confidence. If he makes a few bad calls his confidence goes very quickly. As for his antics on the train and in Cardiff town centre - utterly ridiculous. Him and a few other Ospreys players have a reputation of being pillocks, but that shouldnt detract from the quality they possess.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

Also, what about the tackles he lay on Tait? Those weren't exactly nothing.

 

[feicarsinn]

yeah but wasnt tait about seven back then playing in his debut or something. fact of the matter is henson, through injury, bad luck and whatever else hasn't made the impact most would have expected since say 05 and he hasn't exactly endeered(sp?) himself to the public in the meantime

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 9 2009, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I understand what you mean, I think we should agree to disagree.[/b]

Agreed, I see where you're coming from too.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If we are going to "win the Lions" I'd prefer they were British.[/b]

So you'd take none of the reigning Grand Slam champions then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 9 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also, what about the tackles he lay on Tait? Those weren't exactly nothing.[/b]

Tongans can tackle, doesnt mean they are world class. I've already said my piece on Henson.

Anyway, ARE MUNSTER WORTHY CHAMPIONS? Of course they are.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

I didn't mean to offend the Southern Irish contingent obvz, they have every right to be included in the Lions squad.

 

[durbutter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Apr 9 2009, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If we are going to "win the Lions" I'd prefer they were British.[/b]

So you'd take none of the reigning Grand Slam champions then?

[/b][/quote]

Just Rory and Paddy.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Apr 9 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 9 2009, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It'd still be nice to have a little integrity in the Lions set up, my main issue with Flutey is that he played professional international representative rugby previously (The NZ Maori, against the Lions as well) and that in itself - as far as I'm concerned - should make him ineligible for the Lions (and England for that matter). I wasn't pleased when he started playing for England and I'll be less pleased when/if he plays for the Lions.[/b]

You can't call Flutey on this one, because that's putting everyone's discrepancies onto his shoulders. It's a consistency of international sport, and will always remain, because nationality itself is very difficult to define since the idea of a 'nation' is a human concept anyway.
[/b][/quote]
He played against the Lions? That's a clincher.