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Apparant disdain for Scots

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edinburgh_gunner

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I was sadened, but not surprised by the Lions slection this week. To only have two scots in a squad of 37 is pretty poor. Now before people start going about form, how we played poorly la la hear me out.

McGeehan has shown nothing but contempt and disrespect to his country - lets not forget he is a Scot. Or at lease he was so long as they were paying his wage. But I heard that McGeehan made no effort to watch either Edinburgh or Glasgow, and used only Jim Telfer as his guide to Scottish players. Now I can understand why he might not pick Scots based on Scotland's form, but let's look at Edinburgh and Glasgow - who formt he bulk of the Scottish squad. Edinburgh are sitting third in the ML, have challenged every team all the way this season, and put in strong performances in the H Cup and, while this might be my Embra bias, consider themselves unlucky not to have got some better results. Glasgow, too, have had several strong perfomances - most notably the H Cup win over Toulouse - over the course of the season.

So how can it be that our two pro-teams that provide the bulk of the national squad, perform well against other teams such as Ospreys, Munster, Cardiff etc and not play well at international level? Answer: The management. Now this isn't me having anothe go at Hadden, but it was apparant for all to see that Scotland's game plan wasn't working. We did make a fair few very silly individual errors, yes, but on the whole the problem it seems to me, was the tactics. Scotland did not actually take a pasting in any game - infact we competed strongly in all of the games, even if we couldn't finish a fish supper. So if McGeehan was smart enough, he'd realise this, and see that it might be worth having a look at the pro-teams.

Now I'm not saying that the ML and H Cup is the same as playing the springboks. But if Edinburgh and Glasgow are competing every bit as well as other teams that have a large contingent of national players, should that not suggest that Scotland have capable players? This, however, doesn't mean that I think that many more Scots should have gone. Ford, the Evans brothers, Blair would probably gone if McGeehan hadn't been such a lazy arsehole and relied on Telfer solely.

My gripe is not that only 2 Scots have gone (while I think that number could and should have been higher - but only two or three more) but is the fact that McGeehan based the ability of the Scotish players, soley on the perfomance of the national team who were clearly playing a gameplan that didn't work under a coach who had run out of ideas. McGeehan's lack of interest in Scottish rugby, to me at least, is nothing short of disgusting. Scottish players, it would seem, were always up against it when it came down to selection.
 
And who would you have had in from the Scotland squad and removed from the current squad?

Blair's the obvious choice ahead of Ellis or the now injured O'Leary. A case can be made for Thom and Patsy but who else would you suggest and who's place do they deserve?
 
The 2 who were picked are only going to be dirt trackers. Not enough quality north of the border Im afraid, no matter what pathetic excuses you come up with!
 
Mmm, what Monkeypigeon said.

It's all well and good claiming that Scotland were not pasted once in the 6N, but what players really put their hands up in those games where they weren't pasted? Danielli? There are better options. The Evans pair? Same as before.
Blair? He did himself no favours, though I'd still have taken him.
 
I think the Evans brothers posed the best idea for Scottish lions involvement. If Thom Evans was given a decent platform I think he'd be as good as Monye or Williams and I think the aformentioned pair would have trouble trying to go forward under that Scotland team.
 
I think one of Ross Ford/Rory Best should have gone. Flannery is pretty small for a hooker but the other two (especially Mears) are tiny. A bit of beef at hooker would have been no harm, especially if Smit starts as he is one of the biggest around.

I would imagine if anything happens to Wallace/Williams Barclay will be called up.

Blair/Cusiter will most likely be in the squad soon.

Thom Evans is probably next in line if a wing goes down.


I would imagine selection criteria is, and rightly so:

Six Nations

Heineken Cup

GP/ML/T14
 
It's not 'pathetic' excuses. It's fact, if McGeehan isn't going to give everyone a fair chance to show what they can do, then how is that right? Certain players don't always suit certain game plans, and won't get the chance to really show what they are capabale of. For (albeit an exaggerated and almost certain never to happen) example, if Shane Williams was running in tries by the barrowload everyweek for the Ospreys, but when it came to playing for Wales Gatland decided that they were going to play soley with their forwards and not use the backs. Now, you'd still expect him to go to SA wouldn't you, because the coaches would know what they're capable of! How the hell can McGeehan make a fair assesment on Scottish players, who are more than capable of competing with their opposite numbers, who are stuck in a national team that was going backwards cause of poor management/coaching/direction?

Based on performances I've seen this season, I would have taken Ross Ford ahead of Mears - for all their going on about a monster pack, has anyone seen the size of Ross Ford? The man is a total unit, and while his throwing is a bit wayward from time to time (apparantly dead on last night against the Ospreys) his handling skills and pace, power and strength are not matched by any of the hookers going in his place.

Blair too would go. How can any 9 play well behind a back going backwards? When the Scotland pack has been on the front foot he's been awesome, and the same goes for Edinburgh. I was a the Leinster game last weekend and when our pack was going forwards off of most of the scrums he was having a field day. I can comment on last night as I didn't see the game.

Thom Evans I would have taken. Perhaps the difference between him and Monye was that he was tackled against Monye int he Calcutta cup match in the race for the line. But if McGeehan had bothered his arse and watched a couple of Glasgow games he'd see what he's capable of, especially in the Heineken Cup.

My complaint is not that only 2 Scots have gone - that's another debate. As I have constatntly said, McGeehan had already made his mind up about Scotland players befortee he'd even looked at any of them.
 
Good post edinburgh gunner but your main argument is essentially: McGeehan disregarded Scots because of their poor 6N campaign and shouldn't have.

Unfortunately I believe that even based on club form very few Scots would have made it in. It's a fact of life that up here the right structure simply isn't in place/Scotland isn't producing enough good players.

I'd say that yes, Mike Blair should have gone. I think he's miles ahead of Ellis anyway.

But apart from that I can't justify many more. Ross Ford perhaps...

I think the Evans brothers would be very bit-part players though that offer little that the ones already going don't offer themselves. Halfpenny is on hot form and although he's young, the number of Blues/Welshies on the tour should keep him straight.

I think that's another key thing. Camaraderie/team spirit is important and I think that, as bad as this sounds, two/three nations making up the bulk of the squad solves a lot of morale problems. It's not the way it should be done really; it's the Lions and all four nations should be fairly represented but I'm not sure McGeehan thinks that way.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 26 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ross Ford for me, hes been in good form[/b]

bar his throwing which is fairly crucial considering who we're going up against
[/b][/quote]

Rees is a terrible thrower and Flannery aint the greatest as he is known as a scrummaging hooker and Mears aint been great with the lineouts recently.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 26 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ross Ford for me, hes been in good form[/b]

bar his throwing which is fairly crucial considering who we're going up against
[/b][/quote]

Rees is a terrible thrower and Flannery aint the greatest as he is known as a scrummaging hooker and Mears aint been great with the lineouts recently.
[/b][/quote]

Flannery's been very accurate this year you crazy mofo!

I think Ford should have gone ahead of Rees.
 
Scottish rugby is not respected at all, which doesnt help when it comes to the Lions picks.
 
Well, such is life. Ford, by all accounts, demonstrated last night why he should have gone. All Ford can do is play well and make sure that people turn round to McGeehan and say why the hell didn't you take Ross Ford?

McGeehan went on about chosing players on form. Form is longer than 5 games in my book, and several Scottish players should in the autumn that they can better SA, and many of continued to play every bit as well as the players from other nations who are going in their place.

I do agree with Monkeypigeon about it's easier for 3 nations to get along than 4, but I don't think that that would be such an issue for a bunch of 'professional' players.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (edinburgh_gunner @ Apr 27 2009, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Thom Evans I would have taken. Perhaps the difference between him and Monye was that he was tackled against Monye int he Calcutta cup match in the race for the line. But if McGeehan had bothered his arse and watched a couple of Glasgow games he'd see what he's capable of, especially in the Heineken Cup.[/b]
But that sums it up - Monye dominated when it mattered.

Whatever the feeling about McGeech, Scots rugby needs to think hard about what it takes. Pride is the starting point.
 
The Evans brothers are lively but were not as good or better than the guys selected. Patterson is a no no.

That leaves three players that could have but havent been selected so far; Ford, Blair and Cussiter. Blair hasnt done anything this year to merit selection (like R Jones) so I would say the other two were unlucky, but not robbed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 26 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ross Ford for me, hes been in good form[/b]

bar his throwing which is fairly crucial considering who we're going up against
[/b][/quote]

Rees is a terrible thrower and Flannery aint the greatest as he is known as a scrummaging hooker and Mears aint been great with the lineouts recently.
[/b][/quote]

Flannery's not known as a scrummaging hooker, Best is. Been no issue with his throwing either, it's his contribution in open play that gives him the edge over the other options.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Apr 27 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
The Evans brothers are lively but were not as good or better than the guys selected. Patterson is a no no.

That leaves three players that could have but havent been selected so far; Ford, Blair and Cussiter. Blair hasnt done anything this year to merit selection (like R Jones) so I would say the other two were unlucky, but not robbed.[/b]

Cussiter or Care can feel hard done by with the scrum half selection, Blair can't really have any complaints.

Should the Evans brothers keep their performance going over the next 4 years than they should get spots for Australia.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 26 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 26 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ross Ford for me, hes been in good form[/b]

bar his throwing which is fairly crucial considering who we're going up against
[/b][/quote]

Well they can't steal it if he throws very poorly ;)

Alos he had 2 (possibly 3) bad throws in the championship - that's hardly poor. And although you could argue that they were crucial in the game I think Haddens half time "team talk" played just as big a role - who performed well in the first 15 mins?
 
Edinburgh Gunner, I believe the same thing as you.

Scotland did score probably the best try in the 6N ( Danielli vs Italy) and we get slagged for our back play!!!

I think some of the Scottish players (i'm not going to name any) put some of our guys Lions chances out of reach. They stopped the others from going, not intentionally, by playing badly.

I dislike how McGeechan and co have not really looked at the form of some of the Scottish players in the HC (Evans brothers, Ross Ford, Mike Blair)
 

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