All blacks trio re-sign with chiefs

[ABs2011]

I know people are going to bag be for this but.... Apart from a few games, Waikato have been absolutely crap since Donald Left. With an All Black 10 they were regular finalists, without him they will struggle to stay in the top tier. I mean where is Christie in the national 10 pecking order? Or even just the ITM cup pecking order? 12th - 15th best 10 in ITM cup?

I agree, he was one of the main reasons they performed so consistently well!

 

[Larksea]

OK, I agree with that, but it seems that is an entirely different point than what you were making before.

I thought you were saying the reason the Chiefs are stacked full of players outside the region is because of the pulling power of Rennie and Co - this last comment is more to do with their success.

My point is that the Chiefs have many outside players because Rennie is just bloody good at spotting talent, he has a fantastic rugby brain, and knows how to put a winning team together.

Or you could say that the chiefs have so many outside players because Renee feels no loyalty to the Chiefs region players and unions and no interest in retaining local players to promote regional loyalty and keep preserve the local feel of the team.

Im not saying he can't spot talent because he obviously can. But lets face it, For Foster the chiefs region was his selection pool. For Renee the whole of NZ is his selection pool. in 3-4 years chiefs teams have gone from All But 2-3 of the match day 22 being from the chiefs region to all but 5-6 players NOT being from the chiefs region.

Everyone is different, bit I can honestly say I would rather support a chiefs side like the ones foster put together that represented the region and maybe they make the finals every couple years. than support the chiefs as they are now that win it back to back but only 4-5 players are actually from the region.

Its still good to see the chiefs win the ***les but I used to go to 3-5 chiefs games a year. I've been to 1 chiefs game in the last 2 years - find myself supporting the blues more even though the chiefs are winning all the time.

Always said I really didn't want to see NZ's super rugby teams become like EPL teams.

 

[nickdnz]

Or you could say that the chiefs have so many outside players because Renee feels no loyalty to the Chiefs region players and unions and no interest in retaining local players to promote regional loyalty and keep preserve the local feel of the team.

Im not saying he can't spot talent because he obviously can. But lets face it, For Foster the chiefs region was his selection pool. For Renee the whole of NZ is his selection pool. in 3-4 years chiefs teams have gone from All But 2-3 of the match day 22 being from the chiefs region to all but 5-6 players NOT being from the chiefs region.

Everyone is different, bit I can honestly say I would rather support a chiefs side like the ones foster put together that represented the region and maybe they make the finals every couple years. than support the chiefs as they are now that win it back to back but only 4-5 players are actually from the region.

Its still good to see the chiefs win the ***les but I used to go to 3-5 chiefs games a year. I've been to 1 chiefs game in the last 2 years - find myself supporting the blues more even though the chiefs are winning all the time.

Always said I really didn't want to see NZ's super rugby teams become like EPL teams.

Attendances to Chiefs games would reflect most don't think like you.

It's also interesting how much players from outside the Waikato region but still within the Chiefs are getting chances. Counties Manukau has really prosperred under Rennie.

Also of the match day 22 in the 2013 Super Rugby finals

Smith, Retallick, Messam, Latimer, Van Levan, Kerr-Barlow, Masaga, Pulu, Aki, Cane are all from within the regions, have has since prompted both Elliot and Tameifuna to join Counties and Waikato. Hardly the 4 or 5 players..There was at least 17 players in the squad from the Chiefs region.

 

[ABs2011]

Or you could say that the chiefs have so many outside players because Renee feels no loyalty to the Chiefs region players and unions and no interest in retaining local players to promote regional loyalty and keep preserve the local feel of the team.

Im not saying he can't spot talent because he obviously can. But lets face it, For Foster the chiefs region was his selection pool. For Renee the whole of NZ is his selection pool. in 3-4 years chiefs teams have gone from All But 2-3 of the match day 22 being from the chiefs region to all but 5-6 players NOT being from the chiefs region.

Everyone is different, bit I can honestly say I would rather support a chiefs side like the ones foster put together that represented the region and maybe they make the finals every couple years. than support the chiefs as they are now that win it back to back but only 4-5 players are actually from the region.

Its still good to see the chiefs win the ***les but I used to go to 3-5 chiefs games a year. I've been to 1 chiefs game in the last 2 years - find myself supporting the blues more even though the chiefs are winning all the time.

Always said I really didn't want to see NZ's super rugby teams become like EPL teams.

It's funny because I used support the Canes and the Canes only. Now I find my self supporting the Chiefs more and more mainly cause of my Manawatu heritage. More Manawatu lads in the Chiefs (and the Crusaders for that matter with all the Wihtelocks) than in the Canes.

Times have changed a bit I reckon. Professional rugby took a while to make it's mark at provincial level but I feel like it has really changed things up over the last few years in particular!

 

[Larksea]

Attendances to Chiefs games would reflect most don't think like you.

It's also interesting how much players from outside the Waikato region but still within the Chiefs are getting chances. Counties Manukau has really prosperred under Rennie.

Also of the match day 22 in the 2013 Super Rugby finals

Smith, Retallick, Messam, Latimer, Van Levan, Kerr-Barlow, Masaga, Pulu, Aki, Cane are all from within the regions, have has since prompted both Elliot and Tameifuna to join Counties and Waikato. Hardly the 4 or 5 players..There was at least 17 players in the squad from the Chiefs region.

I never said I was in the majority, true chiefs supporters have never been in the majority. Chiefs are now the FOTM team of course crowds will be good. hawkes Bay, manuatu and Taranaki people in general have been converting to chiefs supporters.

2009 rough count 24 of 30 squad members were from within the chiefs region
2013 rough count ~14-15 of 34 of this years squad were true chiefs region players.
next year it will be ~7-9?

The franchise has no real loyalty or ties to local unions anymore.

 

[nickdnz]

I never said I was in the majority, true chiefs supporters have never been in the majority. Chiefs are now the FOTM team of course crowds will be good. hawkes Bay, manuatu and Taranaki people in general have been converting to chiefs supporters.

2009 rough count 24 of 30 squad members were from within the chiefs region
2013 rough count ~14-15 of 34 of this years squad were true chiefs region players.
next year it will be ~7-9?

The franchise has no real loyalty or ties to local unions anymore.

It wasn't 14-15, it was at least 17 not including the extended playing squad (I say at least because there were players who had already signed with Waikato/Counties/BOP before the end of the SR season that I did not count.

I'd argue a true fan wants whats best for his team, not how much Waikato representation is there.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Well the count depends on how you look at it...

From Chiefs region originally (or at least migrated there in the prior to the 2012 season, when Rennie started):
Toby Smith WAI
Mike Kainga BOP
Romana Graham WAI
Sam Cane BOP
Tanerau Latimer BOP
Liam Messam WAI
Fritz Lee CMA
Matt Vant Leven WAI
Tawera Kerr-Barlow WAI
Brendon Leonard WAI
Augustine Pulu CMA
Bundee Aki CMA
Richard Kahui WAI
Tim Nanai-Williams CMA
Save Tokula WAI
Lelia Masaga BOP

That's 17 players, Kainga had three games and I think Tokula only had one game. Vant Leven was originally only part of the training squad (as were Tokula and Kainga), but of course he got a good amount of game time.

Schwalger played his first game for Counties in 2012, i.e. after he played for the Chiefs. Other players then transferred to the region, for a multitude of reason. They include Retallick (2012) and Tameifuna and Elliot (both 2013).

If you include all players who are now part of the local Chiefs teams, that brings this year's squad up to a total of 21 players from Chiefs provinces. That leaves 17 players from outside the region.

Of the above players, gone for next season are Smith, Graham, Lee, Leonard, Kahui and Masaga. Other players who probably won't be available next season are Vant Leven and Tokula, who are both heading overseas. Kainga hasn't played since last season and won't be capable of playing until January, so he's also unlikely to be in the squad. This whittles the squad down to around 9 local players, give or take. A couple of new guys might make the WTS, but I can't see there being over 12 local players in the team next year.