A Political Thread

[Which Tyler]

Daily Mail*, so a fistful of salt may be required - but if true; utterly dispicable - and completely in line with the Banon playbook.

Push the law to breaking point, knowing that A] it will take the courts time to rule - potentially allowing the illegal order to stand for "long enough"; and B] make the next outrage seem less outrageous.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7464489/Will-Boris-Johnson-suspend-Parliament-force-No-Deal.html?ito=facebook_share_article-related&fbclid=IwAR3dmkqjDudYwmo-SlXCN5irhBHPaVbdSJA8mMwLVWcObzytcUkpiSPaVOI

"Whitehall and Buckingham Palace are on red alert after being warned that Boris Johnson could attempt to prorogue Parliament for a second time if he is defeated in the courts or tied down further by MPs over Brexit, The Mail on Sunday has learned.

The 'nuclear option' is understood to have been discussed by the Prime Minister's closest advisers in a move that could see the Government, Parliament and the courts plunged into a legal quagmire just days before Britain's planned exit from the European Union on October 31.

Concerned officials believe nothing is off-limits for Downing Street's current 'chaos strategy' to avoid letting MPs pass fresh legislation halting Britain's exit from the EU, even crippling political institutions to let the UK slip out on No Deal terms."

Article continues...

ETA*: Also reported in the Times, the New European, the Telegraph, the Independant and the Sun

 

[General Melchett]

Dominic Cummings strikes me as being a lying, twisted, evil Grade A C**T which makes him ideal for a career in politics.

I can see a situation arising on 1 November where we have No.10 and Brexiteers claiming we're out and everyone else claiming our exit was unlawful with it going back to the Supreme court for a ruling.

No. 10 are still making noises that they are edging closer to a deal with the EU claiming they have no idea what No.10 are on about as they still haven't received a concrete proposal. This really is a Government built on lies, deceit and all sorts of shenanigans.

 

[Which Tyler]

After being embarassed by Varadkar at the podium last week - Boris opts not to step up and make a statement this week (Simon McCoy calls it the Incredible Sulk ).

Apparently because of the crowd noise booing him. Crowd are currently utterly silent as PM Bettel speaks.

Bettel looks passionate, pissed off and frustrated after their lunch.

The visuals here tell you all you neet to know about Boris' negotiating tactics with the EU:

 

[Amiga500]

Johnson, Cummings etc need to be careful.

If they want to act like dictators they should be mindful of how most dictators meet their end.


Someone whose husband/wife/child/parent dies as a result of drug/treatment delays caused by a no-deal may be motivated enough to do something drastic*.


*not that I could really condemn them - too many c**ts in government think they are untouchable and are above, not just the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law. The courts and police don't help in this regard by their utter failure to punish "white collar" crime.

How many went to jail over the 2007 crash? The great train robbers don't have a patch on some of the bankers.

 

[Reiser99]

Knew Johnson would be bad, but he could be even more embarrassing than first thought and that takes some doing.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum

Corbyn confirms he will continue to sit on the fence on Brexit and in turn please no one.

 

[Which Tyler]

Just for today, there's no paywall on the FT. If this one is true, it's VERY damning for Boris Gump (sorry, trying to come up with new names than BJ that can still show my disdain for him- still quite fond of "The Incredible Sulk", it's just a bit long)

https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17?

Boris Johnson's nightmare in Luxembourg was more than just a public embarrassment delivered at the hands of the Grand Duchy's Xavier Bettel.
The FT on Wednesday morning reports on a chastening encounter over lunch between Mr Johnson, Michel Barnier and Jean-Claude Juncker, which one official described as a "penny dropping" moment for the prime minister over what it really means to replace the Irish backstop.
According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK's plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.
At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: "So you're telling me the SPS plan doesn't solve the customs problem?"
The exchange, according to one EU official, was part of an abrupt "learning curve" for Mr Johnson in his first face-to-face meeting with Mr Barnier and Mr Juncker since he took office.
Another official describes the prime minister gradually "slumping" in his chair as the reality of the UK's negotiating position and the limited time left to strike an agreement dawned on him. "He wasn't used to hearing it", added the official.

Article Continues...

Elsewhere; Labour don't want to hear from their student wing (too moderate, according to Momentum): https://www.theguardian.com/politic...es-its-student-wing-ahead-of-party-conference

The founder of Momentum, a key ally of Jeremy Corbyn, has succeeded in a bid to make the party effectively abolish its 40-year-old student wing, which is dominated by the more centrist side of the party.
Jon Lansman won the backing of Labour's ruling national executive committee (NEC) for a motion that argued Labour Students was not officially affiliated and should be replaced.
The motion said Labour Students had not paid affiliation fees but this was disputed by Rania Ramli, its chair, who wrote to Jennie Formby, the party's general secretary, setting out its case. Labour Students could now look at a legal challenge on the grounds it has been excluded on the basis of inaccurate information.
The move against Labour Students was condemned by a number of MPs as counterproductive at a time when the party should be focusing on preparing for an election rather than internal rows.

Article Continues...

Whilst Labour's Brexit stance is... to stay put on that fence:
A] Negotiate a new (customs union) deal with the EU
B] 3rd referendum
C] To remain neutral in that debate

It's apparently up for debate in their conference; but that seems to be the position agreed between Corbyn and the National Executive Committee: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum

 

[General Melchett]

The centre ground has been completely vacated. The Lib Dems won't get a better opportunity than this to capitalise. Further defections from both main parties will really help their cause. Swinson needs to do a Clegg and really outshine BoJo and Corbyn - Swinmania

 

[ncurd]

God Labour really do want to make Remain alliance as ducking hard as possible. They need a clear position and if they want a 2nd ref it should be one of the following,

Put May's Deal to 2nd ref and officially campaign for Remain
Put thier own deal to 2nd ref and officially campaign to Leave

The neutral stance will likely rip them apart like the previous ref did the Tories.


I'd rather Swinson did a Kennedy than a Clegg (who actually lost seats in 2010 despite a bigger share of the vote yay FPTP is utter shite). But I think its whats behind the unequivocal remain stance. I do worry about spending 9 years explaining they could only revoke if they got a majority (which they won't).

 

[Bada-Bing!]

God Labour really do want to make Remain alliance as ducking hard as possible. They need a clear position and if they want a 2nd ref it should be one of the following,

Put May's Deal to 2nd ref and officially campaign for Remain
Put thier own deal to 2nd ref and officially campaign to Leave

The neutral stance will likely rip them apart like the previous ref did the Tories.


I'd rather Swinson did a Kennedy than a Clegg (who actually lost seats in 2010 despite a bigger share of the vote yay FPTP is utter shite). But I think its whats behind the unequivocal remain stance. I do worry about spending 9 years explaining they could only revoke if they got a majority (which they won't).

As I said above Corbyn is not helping himself or the Labour Party with his continuing to fudge the issue. Starmer and Watson already breaking ranks.

 

[Which Tyler]

The centre ground has been completely vacated. The Lib Dems won't get a better opportunity than this to capitalise. Further defections from both main parties will really help their cause. Swinson needs to do a Clegg and really outshine BoJo and Corbyn - Swinmania

And the Lib Dems in the middle only need a 5% swing to hit the magic 25% which converts from being a good showing at the polls, to being a hundred+ MPs under the insanity of FPTP - Their Brexit stance is a principalled, but dangerous strategy though: https://www.economist.com/news/2019...et-on-a-vow-to-overturn-the-brexit-referendum

Article Starts...
Unless polls are monumentally wrong, the Lib Dems' promise to revoke Article 50 could prove as relevant as a Sunday league footballer's plan for an elaborate celebration should he score the winning goal in an FA Cup final. Its main benefit was to generate attention and cement the Lib Dems' position as the most ardent of the Remain-supporting parties. On that basis it succeeded. But while the Lib Dems trot along at 20% in the polls, Ms Swinson will not be heading to Downing Street.

Still, optimism abounded in Bournemouth. Normally the annual conference is a form of therapy for Lib Dems, jokes Tim Farron, who led the party in 2015-17 while it was on life support, with only 8% of the vote and eight MPs. Now its MPs are much more bombastic. Chuka Umunna, who defected from Labour (via Change UK) this summer, suggested that the party could win 200 MPs if it gets a 5% swing in the polls. When a party wins more than about a quarter of the vote, a deluge of seats follows, owing to the brutal logic of Britain's first-past-the-post system.

Yet local politics can trump national swings. Remainers are clumped together in cities and Scotland, while the Leave vote is scattered throughout the country more evenly, making it easier for Brexit-supporting parties to pick up seats. A modest political headwind could blow the Lib Dems badly off course. Of the party's 18 seats, only one—Orkney and Shetland—is truly safe. Instead the Lib Dems are inches from both death and glory. The next election could easily result in their best-ever result, or another dreadful one.

Article Continues...

 

[ncurd]

Its a dangerous strategy but I think the only stance they could actually legtimately take other than putting May's deal to a referendum. No leave vote would trust them negotiating a new deal (they'd barely trust Labour) and they would never chance no-deal to the public.

Reality is if a remain/Labour majority was in parliment we are be looking at Labour deal V remain. Otherwise its likely no-deal....and I don't think the LD stance really effects that unless there is a TBP/Con pact.

 

[General Melchett]

The Lib Dems are clearly targeting the 48% Remainers and any centre left/right voters who are disillusioned by the far right Tories and dithering Labour. It's an extreme position they are taking but it is clear and unambiguous.

 

[Reiser99]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...E1g3yiTweJfAKIvmD0PQuXVtm78CzrU5mp_Q-7xDxf7dg

So apparently because we don't actually need the backstop until December 2020 (which is the date if we had left on time) the E.U should agree it in principle now and spend the next year working out the legal details.

So basically when we leave we are meant to be negotiating a trade deal that will avoid a hard border, but in the event that the negotiations are not successful (who would bet on that, honestly) and that the U.K and E.U can't reach an agreement, the guarantee to stop there being a hard border in Ireland will also be negotiated at the same time as the trade deal. However if that is not negotiated and the trade deal fails then there will be no legal backstop at the end of the transition period, which is the one ******* thing that the E.U has said can't happen.

Does the U.K government actually understand how any of this works?

 

[Amiga500]

Trying to put on a neutral cap - I thought the argument put to the supreme court that Bozo was out of line was significantly stronger than that which sought to keep the prorogation ongoing.

John Major's intervention was particularly powerful in outlining examples of what a PM could do if the courts decide they can never intervene with regards prorogation.

I expect the supreme court to overturn prorogation and Bozo to try another move.

 

[Which Tyler]

This gentleman is happy to die for his cause.

A Darwin Award lies in his future, but I need a lot more convincing that he has the right to force it on others.

Given that, I wonder if he'll happily take a back seat, and let someone who doesnt want to die of medical shortages have his share?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/no-deal-brexit-on-bbc-breakfast-1-6279075

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Every week Corbyn and labour give more and more cases allowing them to be compared to some Communist purge... The really are absolutely ******* clueless about how those outside the die hard fans view such actions. Conservatives and Labour tearing themselves apart in their desperation to vacate the middle ground and become more extreme.

If the lib Dems can't secure the middle ground now then they will have proven themselves to also be utterly ******* useless.

 

[Which Tyler]

If the lib Dems can't secure the middle ground now then they will have proven themselves to also be utterly ******* useless.

Yes but...
There are a lotmof people out there who haven't forgiven them for the coalition - though I think they're getting fewer as people see how crazy this iteration of the conservatives is.

They're also far from the middle ground on the single most important election issue at the moment, and may also lose more votes by saying they won't enter another coalition (which is odd, given that they still haven't been forgiven for the coalition, but there you have it)

 

[ncurd]

They'll enter confidence and supply just no coalition the last one burned then too much to enter a formal a arrangement again and be part of government.

******* Labour though....can't they see what happeningos with the Tories and the fact people are fleeing them...idiots.

 

[Which Tyler]

They'll enter confidence and supply just no coalition the last one burned then too much to enter a formal a arrangement again and be part of government.

I know, but it will plenty of people (especially the lower information voters) nervous about voting for them