A Political Thread pt. 2

[Saintjay]

Yeah but online in a Kemi Badendoch kinda way.

Dammit I had in the basement covered in dorito dust in the sweep stake.

 

[dirty harry]

9 years and change vs 22 months

Damn double homicide hahahaha

 

[dirty harry]

Do you guys ever worry that this is an echo chamber, and you pile on any dissenting opinion, like you dog pile Chicago kid?

 

[Saintjay]

Do you guys ever worry that this is an echo chamber, and you pile on any dissenting opinion, like you dog pile Chicago kid?

I think you are confusing dog piling with pushing back on someone talking absolute ********.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't think Rogan is a right wing extremist, I do think though he's a moron and a conspiracy lover. It just so happens that there appears to be a much stronger correlation between right wing political positions and believing conspiracies than left wing.

Whilst arguments can be made about free speech, it's ultimately a choice to provide a platform to someone, particularly when such platform is invitational. The idea that words are harmless is also incorrect, words can and often are harmful. People have committed horrific acts based on what has been said and the majority of atrocities in history were off the back of people convincing others to carry out these acts, there would have been talking before any of the atrocities happened.

Words can convince people to commit genocide. Your average person doesn't just randomly think that and you certainly don't coordinate such things by chance, it would take words, it would take convincing, it takes lies, threats, deceit and all manner of speech to last the groundwork. Free speech is a good thing but the second part of that is recognising what people's speech can lead to. Do you always wait for the atrocity before acting?

 

[dirty harry]

I don't think Rogan is a right wing extremist, I do think though he's a moron and a conspiracy lover. It just so happens that there appears to be a much stronger correlation between right wing political positions and believing conspiracies than left wing.

Whilst arguments can be made about free speech, it's ultimately a choice to provide a platform to someone, particularly when such platform is invitational. The idea that words are harmless is also incorrect, words can and often are harmful. People have committed horrific acts based on what has been said and the majority of atrocities in history were off the back of people convincing others to carry out these acts, there would have been talking before any of the atrocities happened.

Words can convince people to commit genocide. Your average person doesn't just randomly think that and you certainly don't coordinate such things by chance, it would take words, it would take convincing, it takes lies, threats, deceit and all manner of speech to last the groundwork. Free speech is a good thing but the second part of that is recognising what people's speech can lead to. Do you always wait for the atrocity before acting?

This is very reductionist don't you think, I mean every atrocity in history was performed by a water drinker also!

But you do make a valuable point, your right atrocities have been committed by great speakers, and coercive people. You would imagine, then with tech increasing, the telephone, then the Internet, and social media that these atrocities would heighten in number and scale, I mean allowing people with bad ideas to speak to larger audiences would create greater genocides etc? I certainly don't think this has occurred, infact I would argue thenopposite has happened, that people with bad ideas, who look to use public forums are countered by people with better ideas.

Your also 100% I think Rogan classes himself as a conspiracy loving moron, pretty accurate and I'd say he's pretty transparent about that.

I'm trying to think of a current day conspiracy that has taken hold of the public and convinced them to cause atrocities, I'd argue there is possibly an anti isreali sentiment online that has led the UK government to ban chants promoting the genocide of Jewish people worldwide. One could argue the promotion of and attacks on Donald Trump have convinced 2 massive groups of people to believe lies and mistruths but these all come from the experts and the US government agencies, so that can't be right...

I read an article a few years ago about the suppression of bad ideas, to deep dark corners of the Web, where extremism was easily promoted, for the life of me I can't remember who wrote it, maybe former FBI. But it made valuable points about keeping extreme views visible, because when they are visible they are controllable.

I'll try to find it if I can.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean, I wouldn't lump COVID in with the flat earth and moon landing, that's silly, especially as there is plenty of evidence to highlight early 'conspiracy theories' were proved right, especially with regards to China, Wuhan labs, Masks, Lockdowns and natural immunity. When so many claims are proved accurate, it moves from some conspiracy theory to authoritarianism no?

And this is my point, when conspiracy and misinformation is weaponised, human rights abuses occur, as we saw during COVID. If I have to turn off an idiot spouting nonsense for that to be avoided, I'm happy to do so.

Yeah, I can easily lump the Covid stuff in with the rest of the ********. You talking about horse de wormer or secret Chinese labs doesn't change my mind on that. If there is another pandemic, who would you rather get your info from, medical professionals and virologists or Rogan?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Obviously I don't expect, or even want, anyone to listen to this tripe but just the first few minutes confirms what a joke of a "conversation" this is. A comedian masquerading as a historian interviewing a discredited, unpublished conspiracy theorist and going on about how great Tucker Carlson is. I mean, talk about red flags in the first few mins.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah, I can easily lump the Covid stuff in with the rest of the ********. You talking about horse de wormer or secret Chinese labs doesn't change my mind on that. If there is another pandemic, who would you rather get your info from, medical professionals and virologists or Rogan?

Wait, are you claiming that the most likely cause of COVID was not from a lab leak in Wuhan?

It's agreed it originated in Wuhan, but different sources deny its a lab leak, it's just that a bat bit a pig and was eaten by a person around the back of the bins of the market across the road from the Wuhan institute of Virology (I partly jest lol).

Although still disputed numerous agencies now recognise it as the leading factor, I mean they violated national institutes of health compliance, and were defunded by Biden based on them not being responsible.

I don't think its fair to call this theory a conspiracy, does anyone else?

I'm not sure if your playing obtuse or just desperate to win an argument, but this is a poor take.

And with regards to another pandemic, I would use common sense and speak to my doctor like I did the last, I would however not blindly comply with human rights abuses, throw elderly people to the wolves, or, and most importantly not learn the lessons of the past pandemic. I have no issue with the initial over reaction by global governments in 2020, noone knew what was coming, everyone was bracing for the worst...

However I do have issues with the prolonging and using the initial panic for political advantage. Take for example, a load of Democrats warning people not to take Donald Trump's vaccine, leading up to the election 2020, that was disgraceful! Undermining vaccination because of an election and the need to beat an opponent, that's unconscionable IMO.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wait, are you claiming that the most likely cause of COVID was not from a lab leak in Wuhan?

It's agreed it originated in Wuhan, but different sources deny its a lab leak, it's just that a bat bit a pig and was eaten by a person around the back of the bins of the market across the road from the Wuhan institute of Virology (I partly jest lol).

Although still disputed numerous agencies now recognise it as the leading factor, I mean they violated national institutes of health compliance, and were defunded by Biden based on them not being responsible.

I don't think its fair to call this theory a conspiracy, does anyone else?

I'm not sure if your playing obtuse or just desperate to win an argument, but this is a poor take.

And with regards to another pandemic, I would use common sense and speak to my doctor like I did the last, I would however not blindly comply with human rights abuses, throw elderly people to the wolves, or, and most importantly not learn the lessons of the past pandemic. I have no issue with the initial over reaction by global governments in 2020, noone knew what was coming, everyone was bracing for the worst...

However I do have issues with the prolonging and using the initial panic for political advantage. Take for example, a load of Democrats warning people not to take Donald Trump's vaccine, leading up to the election 2020, that was disgraceful! Undermining vaccination because of an election and the need to beat an opponent, that's unconscionable IMO.

Would you be so kind as to make a claim and then provide some citations, or any evidence, to support that claim. I think that would be helpful.

 

[dirty harry]

Would you be so kind as to make a claim and then provide some citations, or any evidence, to support that claim. I think that would be helpful.

Which claim?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Which claim?

Whatever claim you want to make around the cause of Covid. It can be hard to follow you sometimes.

 

[dirty harry]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320

Democrats face quandary on vaccine support as election nears

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day.

apnews.com

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

There you go, 4 links I'd arguenyoud find reputable, to 2 different claims in what 15 seconds...

Good enough?

 

[Which Tyler]

Last couple of weeks have made me so glad that this isn't the only place I get to shoot the breeze about the politics of the day.
1-2 people dominating a conversation doesn't make for a very interesting conversation - especially when it means you don't get to do what it says on the metaphorical tin

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Here we go again about Wuhan lab leaks. Any evidence was wiped out yonks ago and we'll never get to the bottom. If it was a lab then CCP would have locked it down and if Wuhan markets (most likely) well those markets were washed clean.

Dragging this up again is pointless and all it showed was how utterly unprepared we were and how bad our NHS was at coping.

How susceptible we are like Americans to a good old conspiracy theory. I don't listen to Rogan and doubt I will.

 

[dirty harry]

Here we go again about Wuhan lab leaks. Any evidence was wiped out yonks ago and we'll never get to the bottom. If it was a lab then CCP would have locked it down and if Wuhan markets (most likely) well those markets were washed clean.

Dragging this up again is pointless and all it showed was how utterly unprepared we were and how bad our NHS was at coping.

How susceptible we are like Americans to a good old conspiracy theory. I don't listen to Rogan and doubt I will.

I near 100% agree with all of this, my pointbisnt what happened, muly argument is merely that now that international agencies deem it most likely, it can hardly be called a 'conspiracy theory'. By definition thisnis lacking evidence, whereas this theory has plenty, from international governments, health organisations and reports and failures of compliance.

Thisndiscussion is in the context of bad ideas should be allowed public.

 

[Welsh Exile]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320

Democrats face quandary on vaccine support as election nears

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day.

apnews.com

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

There you go, 4 links I'd arguenyoud find reputable, to 2 different claims in what 15 seconds...

Good enough?

So a link from the CIA director giving his view and an article referencing German spy agency saying they are 80/90% sure it was accidentally leaked from a lab in Wuhan (spell check changes Wuhan to Wigan which I find amusing)

Long and short of it is we don't know. Would you say that is fair?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Last couple of weeks have made me so glad that this isn't the only place I get to shoot the breeze about the politics of the day.
1-2 people dominating a conversation doesn't make for a very interesting conversation - especially when it means you don't get to do what it says on the metaphorical tin

Conversations with me are always interesting.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

Ex-MP Craig Williams charged with betting offences

The investigation was launched last year following bets placed on the timing of the 2024 general election.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Saintjay]

Texas currently have a major measels outbreak. Despite being declared eradicated in the US in 2000. A combination of vaccination scepticism with 95% take up needed for herd immunity, years of poor funding and health cuts.