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A Political Thread pt. 2

Trump dozed off 2 days in a row in his own trial... Barely a peep in the media. Imagine it was reversed and Biden was doing it, we'd be hearing "sleepy Joe" all the time. It really does show how much of the propaganda being pushed by Republicans is just projection.
The whole thing is a farce, I'd show my disdain for it by sleeping through it too. In a "normal" trial the defendant is not required to be at jury selection, that is an administrative procedure that is handled by the lawyers but it goes along with everything else in this situation. There are so many things with this situation that in any normal case would be so far beyond the bounds of proper legal proceedings it is hard to take this witch hunt of a trial seriously. Even Alan Dershowitz, one of the most respected legal minds in America and definitely not a Trump supporter has said that this case crosses so many boundaries or proper legal procedure and turned it into a Soviet era political show trial.
 
Dershowitz is one of trump's biggest defenders.

The defendant is always present for my jury selections.
 
He is not a supporter of Trump and has said that many times however he has made very clear from a legal perspective, he vehemently disagrees with how the legal system has been used against Trump. He has very much separated his personal/legal opinions. He did the same when he defended Nazis right to march and protest.

The defendant is usually present I will agree however I have never heard a judge order a defendant to be present for selection

The whole thing is a farce and a politically motivated means to influence an election
 
The whole thing is a farce, I'd show my disdain for it by sleeping through it too. In a "normal" trial the defendant is not required to be at jury selection, that is an administrative procedure that is handled by the lawyers but it goes along with everything else in this situation. There are so many things with this situation that in any normal case would be so far beyond the bounds of proper legal proceedings it is hard to take this witch hunt of a trial seriously. Even Alan Dershowitz, one of the most respected legal minds in America and definitely not a Trump supporter has said that this case crosses so many boundaries or proper legal procedure and turned it into a Soviet era political show trial.
What a load of crap.

The only thing not normal here is how Trump hasn't already been punished for repeatedly violating the gag order imposed on him. Of all the cases Trump is facing, this is the least important. If there was no merit in it, his defence would be able to get him cleared. There has to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt in a unanimous jury decision for him to be punished but the contempt case is there clear as day and he hasn't been punished for it.

Likewise the actions of Trump organisation were criminal and yet it's only been a civil lawsuit. They could easily have escalated that to a criminal case. It's amazing how you can think it is a means to influence and election and not that Trump is actually a criminal... Remember, this is the guy who shouted "lock her up" when the FBI decided to publicly announce an inquiry into Clinton but kept quiet that they were also investigating Trump. The guy who said any president even under suspicion should not run.

You want a politically motivated attempt to influence an election? Look at the Biden impeachment attempt, which has now fallen flat.
 
This case was a joke from the start. It was past the statute of limitations but the law was changed to allow for prosecution of one person. The charge that Trump is being charged with is normally a misdemeanor, normally punished by a fine in rare cases a year in jail unless there is another crime that the altered documents were used to cover up. The alleged crime that Trump is accused of carrying out related to campaign fund mis-use which was investigated by the FBI who found that there was no mis-use of campaign funds and declined to prosecute, meaning no crime there. It is not illegal to pay hush money, companies and wealthy individuals do it regularly, it is called a NDA.

As far as the civil trial and the claim that it was criminal what was the crime and who was the victim? This is why there was never a criminal trial, they never had a victim. The companies that issued those loans had to do their due diligence and have that property appraised prior to approving any loan. If their appraisers and underwriters were comfortable with the valuation who is a court to decide otherwise? Also it was a the judge that ruled that Trump improperly inflated the value of his property but I never heard any qualifications or certifications to testify or determine the valuation of ANY property let alone somethings as unique as a golf course, club and residence which is not your normal run of the mill property. Even the companies that loaned him the money testified that they were satisfied with the valuation and they were not defrauded in any way. This is a case brought by someone who ran her campaign to "get Trump" which questions her impartiality in any of this and not to mention, both her and Bragg were guests at the White House prior to these cases going to court. A little odd for two local level prosecutors who are Democrats to visit the White House prior to beginning court cases with the president's opponent.

Part of the problem with the Biden impeachment, like any Congressional hearing is the inability of the non-executive controlling party to enforce subpoenas or obtain executive branch controlled documents. We have no idea what may have been revealed. All I do know is that one of Trump's former advisors is going to prison for failing to appear for a Congressional subpoena while Hunter does the same thing but because "The Big Guy" oversees the DOJ, he doesn't have to worry about that. It goes with the concept of the double standard in the legal system. I think it was a big distraction to all the other disasters Biden is carrying out everyday. Whether by incompetence or design, America is not what it was and is in a very bad place since Biden came to power. Sadly there are so many things that his admin is doing that are destroying things here
 
This case was a joke from the start. It was past the statute of limitations but the law was changed to allow for prosecution of one person. The charge that Trump is being charged with is normally a misdemeanor, normally punished by a fine in rare cases a year in jail unless there is another crime that the altered documents were used to cover up. The alleged crime that Trump is accused of carrying out related to campaign fund mis-use which was investigated by the FBI who found that there was no mis-use of campaign funds and declined to prosecute, meaning no crime there. It is not illegal to pay hush money, companies and wealthy individuals do it regularly, it is called a NDA.

As far as the civil trial and the claim that it was criminal what was the crime and who was the victim? This is why there was never a criminal trial, they never had a victim. The companies that issued those loans had to do their due diligence and have that property appraised prior to approving any loan. If their appraisers and underwriters were comfortable with the valuation who is a court to decide otherwise? Also it was a the judge that ruled that Trump improperly inflated the value of his property but I never heard any qualifications or certifications to testify or determine the valuation of ANY property let alone somethings as unique as a golf course, club and residence which is not your normal run of the mill property. Even the companies that loaned him the money testified that they were satisfied with the valuation and they were not defrauded in any way. This is a case brought by someone who ran her campaign to "get Trump" which questions her impartiality in any of this and not to mention, both her and Bragg were guests at the White House prior to these cases going to court. A little odd for two local level prosecutors who are Democrats to visit the White House prior to beginning court cases with the president's opponent.

Part of the problem with the Biden impeachment, like any Congressional hearing is the inability of the non-executive controlling party to enforce subpoenas or obtain executive branch controlled documents. We have no idea what may have been revealed. All I do know is that one of Trump's former advisors is going to prison for failing to appear for a Congressional subpoena while Hunter does the same thing but because "The Big Guy" oversees the DOJ, he doesn't have to worry about that. It goes with the concept of the double standard in the legal system. I think it was a big distraction to all the other disasters Biden is carrying out everyday. Whether by incompetence or design, America is not what it was and is in a very bad place since Biden came to power. Sadly there are so many things that his admin is doing that are destroying things here
He was originally charged for defamation if you recall. Even though the statute of limitation had passed, him calling her a liar was recent. The crime he is accused of is not misuse of campaign funds, it's misuse of company funds. He essentially used his company to give a gift in kind to himself, with the intention of influencing the outcome of the election, therefore breaking campaign finance laws AND not properly logging what the expense was for in the company and so falsifying company financial records. These are both crimes.

The victim was the government, who lost out on tax revenues as a result of fraud. Trump was claiming one value to banks and another to the government to reduce his tax burden. You don't need a qualified person to see if Trump tells 1 party a building is worth X and tells another party it is worth Y with a significant difference between the 2, that one of those figures is false. You also think they had no expert testimony as to the value of the properties or asked those who did the valuations to justify them? Ok... Hell in one of the properties he quoted the floor space as being 3x what it was. If the banks were satisfied with the valuation Trump gave to them, that would make his valuation to the government false, reducing his tax burden substantially and thus fraud. Funny how you question the credentials of those bringing the prosecution. You know, if they were biased, that doesn't affect their ability to bring a prosecution forwards right? Look at all the failed cases Trump has tried to bring forwards or again the whole Hunter Biden saga. As it is, there is no evidence her personal views have had any impact on the trial. She can't bias the evidence or the records.

False, Congress CAN enforce subpoenas. There are Congressional police who can serve exactly that function if required. In addition, Congress can go to courts or charge someone with contempt to enforce the subpoena, neither require the executive. Hunter did turn up to his subpoena, has your head been stuck in the sand, or were you not aware because Republicans shut up the second he did because they couldn't get any dirt on him? Also, it's extremely rich for Jim Jordan to ever talk about the importance of subpoenas when he ignored his own. Now why don't you explain why the Republicans said they were going to subpoena Hunter Biden and it could be a public hearing, Hunter agrees for a public hearing and suddenly Republicans turn around and demand it actually be private? He called their bluff. You know why he wanted it public? Because in previous private hearings, the Republicans came out and outright lied about what was said, which was later shown when transcripts were released. Hunter Biden didn't want that happening. Fortunately transcripts were released quickly for the Biden case to prevent Republicans getting out early and lying about what was said. they also got caught when their special prosecutor looking at Joe Biden wrote one thing in his report that turned out to be false as the transcripts of his interviews showed (such as lying that Joe couldn't remember when his son died when the transcript showed he did.) There is a reason that guy resigned his seat the day before his hearing, it's because he lied repeatedly but wanted to be able to testify as a private individual, not a member of the DoJ and so could not be held accountable for lying. All this escapted your notice? Clearly the fact this private hearing DID go ahead escaped your notice because, as with every failure from the impeachment, the far right propaganda system goes very quiet about it when it fails. When was the last you heard of Hunter Biden? It was shortly after the hearing. Funny because didn't Republicans repeatedly say they had a smoking gun witness? More than one has testified that Joe Biden did nothing wrong and had no links to any of these schemes Republicans are trying to fabricate. It then turns out the great FBI whistleblower was actually a Russian asset, that the Republicans were warned he was not credible beforehand, but still put him up on a pedestal and claimed he was yet another star witness.

Oh and what are these Biden disasters? Record levels of employment, one of the longest periods of protracted growth, beating growth forecasts nearly every quarter, lowest levels of inflation in the developed world after the invasion of Ukraine, highest increase in infrastructure spending ever, reduction in the deficit, record stock market levels, record increase in manufacturing and lowering of drug costs to name a few. Why don't you actually list the terrible things that are happening in Biden's USA? Go on. I'm sure it's so much worse than hundreds of thousands dying due to woeful Covid response or an attempted insurrection...

As a last point, a few months ago a Democrat asked the question during the Biden impeachment inquiry. He said everyone raise their hands who would accept seeing both Hunter Biden and Trump punished if it was shown they had committed crimes. All the Democrats raised their hands, not a single Republican did. What does that tell you?
 
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Out of curiosity are you an American?

Calling someone a liar does not make for defamation, they have to show a material loss or impact from that and if the statue of limitations is up, its up recent or not. They can't charge someone with armed robbery after the statute of limitations, regardless of how recent it was. He was charged with using campaign funds to have Cohen use those funds to pay Stormy with and then classify them as legal expenses.

I think the Bidens are dirty as it comes but I think that whole impeachment thing was a circus. Hunter did show up once but then when subpoenaed the second time, stood outside and would not go in for the hearing. The authority for any trial or contempt case for those subpoenas lies with the justice department, Merrick Garland, a Biden appointee. The back and forth of the hearings from private to public was a joke and definitely hurt the credibility of it. I think it focused on the wrong things with everything else going on.

There was no attempted insurrection by Trump. He disagreed with the voting just like other politicians have done. Gore, Abrams and Clinton have all claimed that vote results were not legitimate but no one calls them an insurrectionist. Also insurrection is a legal charge, he hasn't been found guilty of it. The COVID response at the beginning was messed up, but no one knew much about what to do and the numbers who died FROM COVID as opposed to those who died WITH COVID are far different and were deliberately manipulated to gain government and insurance money for hospitals. I know of someone who died in a motorcycle crash but was found to have COVID and was reported to have died FROM COVID. An outright lie. We will never know how many died with vs from COVID, also much of the risk factors that led to COVID related deaths were suppressed to garner fear and greater control. Remember, never let a crises go to waste, no matter who it really hurts.


Much of the record levels of employment are due to people getting second jobs because the financial situation is so bad and many of these jobs are not careers, they are part time jobs. Cherry picking the numbers to create a favorable outcome
Inflation that has most Americans paying thousands more a year than before he took office. They like to say "inflation is down" but it has gone so high over the past few years that even a small jump now is still a lot compounded on the already present inflation
His handling of COVID especially his admin conspiring with the teachers to keep schools closed when it was never necessary. This has led to academic and mental health issues that experts have direclty linked to these policies
Buying oil from Russia and Venezuela instead of drilling for it here which has cleaner oil and isn't helping to finance Russia's war in Ukraine
Completely abandoning any semblance of a border while spending billions upon billions on Ukraine's defense. I definitely don't have a problem with assisting Ukraine but when we are paying government workers salaries and to support their economy our priorities are off. If they can run their domestic football league I don't think anyone else should be footing the bills for their economy and government paychecks, the danger to the country as a whole can't be that great
Allowing tens of thousands of illegal aliens to cross the border without any proper vetting
Abandoning the asylum process as it is legally established
Gas prices that are significantly higher than Trump era which drives the price of everything else up
Stealing money from taxpayers to buy votes in the form of the student debt cancellation scam. No one also should pay for another's debt that they willingly took on and it exceeds his authority which was stated by members of his own party as well as the Supreme Court
Stealing money from taxpayers to give people tax refunds for buying EVs. That's your decision you pay for it I shouldn't have to give you a dime
Trying to force the so called green energy non-sense on people, ignoring the reality of this plan and the trickle down of this misguided policy
Disgracefully embracing the make believe of the trans/non binary/alphabet group mumbo jumbo while harming women but at the same time, claiming to want to empower women
Entrenching DEI in government policies and activities regardless of the impact it has. We have a supreme court justice that was picked following Biden saying that he was going to pick a black female, all before viewing candidates and a black female that either can't or worse wouldn't give an answer as to what a woman is
Gun restrictions that target legal, law abiding firearms owners not criminals who ignore these laws
Labeling parents terrorist simply because they dared to stand up to the school boards about mask policy or God forbid, don't want a teen boy playing make believe in the locker room with their teen daughter
Attacks on Christian organizations They want to fine GCU $37 million and shut it down over overpromising and overcharging but only fine PSU $4 million when they covered up a decades long sexual abuse problem and don't feel the need to hold any of their Ivy League college friends accountable for the same issue of overpromising and underdelivering on degrees and hidden fees
His admin working with social media groups to silence people or organizations that said anything about COVID that was not as the administration wanted it to be

I just know how my life was when Trump was president and while I did not agree with everything he did or said, I was financially more secure and saw the nation on the whole as more free than it is now. It appears that they have learned nothing about the economic impacts of widespread, unchecked immigration which is already leading to financial problems in many of our major cities. We only needed to look at the issues that Greece and other nations in Europe have seemed to face from this to see where it was headed. The green energy that is being forced down our throats by politicians is usually at the behest of those financially benefitting from it and as most of these products come from China in some way, we are helping their economy not ours. Additionally when you look at it Biden and his admin are following so much from the socialist/communist playbook as far as how they govern. They turn everything into a race issue dividing people further, instead of finding ways that people can find common ground. They seem to be working very hard at attacking religion and inserting themselves more and more into controlling economic production, regardless of what the people want through the bureaucracy that is unelected. They seem to love the big government, nanny state and their actions seem to support this
 
No I'm not American.

A jury found she did suffer material loss so there is that. Yes I know the statute of limitations was up, that's why he was charger for civil defamation and not criminal rape. The statute of limitations doesn't mean you have to pretend it never happened, it just means you can't be prosecuted for it. Trump wasn't prosecuted for it, he was fined for his recent defamation.

You "Think" the Biden's are as dirty as they come? Based on what exactly? Do you have any actual evidence or are you just regurgitating whatever propaganda is fed to you? The DoJ is only one of the avenues to enforce a subpoena, and where is the evidence they refuse to act on enforcing one? Also when exactly did Hunter not turn up?

Yes there was an attempted insurrection by Trump and no, not like other politicians have done at all. The attempt to try to claim there are similarities strongly suggests you are either being intellectually dishonest or simply repeating debunked talking points. I don't know about Abrams but Gore and Clinton both accepted the results of their election when the final decision was made. Both Gore and Clinton got more votes than their opponent and, in Gore's case, the final result was decided by a relative of the winner. Gore and Clinton did not launch 60 lawsuits denying the election. Gore and Clinton did not say it was rigged, they did not undermine the integrity of the entire system, they did not claim mass fraud, They did not claim some deep state stole it from them, they did not demand states send electors other than the correct ones, they did not as vice president simply refuse to count the votes they didn't want and they certainly did not support a violent attack on the seat of government. They also didn't whinge about it every week for the next 4 years.

Ah you're one of those conspiracy nutters who for some reason thinks Covid numbers were manipulated. Get a ******* grip. Diseases are not listed as a cause of death on medical records. For example if you have a disease that causes heart failure, "cardiac arrest" would be the cause of death, not the disease. You're also forgetting the whole world out there that also had to deal with Covid, with many "such as the Chinese" almost certainly downplaying their numbers. Yet the number of deaths still is in the same ballpark around the world. So you want to claim that both countries overplaying it and downplaying it ended up with hundred of thousands to millions of deaths and it just wasn't that serious? Also how the **** is all nations round the world torpedoing their economies beneficial!? There was a far greater attack on personal liberties and freedoms after 9/11 than from Covid. Just what control do the government have now that they didn't before?

Complete lie, statistically most of the jobs are full time, educated employment. I am noticing a trend with what you are regurgitating and what has been spread on Fox news and the like. Here's a tidbit for you, more jobs have been created under the Biden administration than the last 3 Republican administrations combined.
Inflation was a global problem in the same way Covid was. The entire developed world was hit by it. The USA had a lower peak than Europe and many other places, returned to more normal levels faster and had higher wage growth to offset the effect of it than any other developed country.
Not sure how you can look at how the Biden administration handled Covid and think it did worse than a guy who's understanding of it was at the level of ******* injecting bleach!
The USA isn't buying lots of oil from Russia or Venezuela and oil drilling in the USA is at the highest level it has been in history
The Democrats tried to pass a bill strengthening the border and giving Republicans everything they wanted. Republicans killed that bill. It was the strongest border bill in decades and Republicans were the ones that stopped it passing. Republicans don't want to solve the border issue, they want it to stay as a problem. That should tell you everything you need to know. But whilst you claim he's abandoned the border, how about you point to what actions he has taken that has resulted in this? Has he cut funding to agencies? Cut staff? Moved people away from the border areas? No.
Absolute lie, the vetting process is the same as it has ever been
Also a lie, the asylum process is unchanged
Have you actually read how the student debt forgiveness works? If you think it wipes out all debt students have instantly, then you have as usual been parroting Fox bullshit. I'll give you a clue, it doesn't do that, not even close. I suggest you read about how it actually works. The main goal of the student debt forgiveness is to prevent situations where they can be paying off the loan but interest rates rise to such a level that they only pay interest. It's about restructuring the debt do give students a chance to actually pay down the debt itself and ONLY cancel it for a very select few if it's proven after years of honest attempts to pay it off, they simply can't. Even the slightest blip in their attempts to pay it off and they aren't eligible. But you didn't bother to check that did you?
It's not stealing, otherwise you can portray all government spending as theft (you're one of those types aren't you?) However you have a problem with tax refunds? Yet you have no problem with Trumps massive tax cuts for the wealthy I assume?
Green energy is not nonsense, only your argument is
How dare we recognise and respect certain minority groups. People used to say the same about respecting gay people and black people, the world didn't collapse did it?
Diversity of gender and race is important in how someone perceives the world. If you have a girlfriend / wife, I suggest you get her opinion on how different the experiences of a woman and a man are walking around a city at night. Imagine if a group is told that sexual harassment is an issue and an all male group says they have never experienced it so it can't be a thing. However what is there to say that the person he picked for the job isn't suitable? If you want examples of people getting the job who aren't suitable, tell me how the hell you justify Amy Coney Barrett, a woman who had 2 years experience as a clerk and 2 more in a private practice? If you have issue with people not fit for the role, I assume you were outraged at that? Compare her credentials to the "token" one you are whinging about and tell me EXACTLY how Amy Coney Barrett is more qualified.
More ********, the gun laws are targeting criminals. You may as well say stealing laws only harm innocent people because criminals ignore it. Well duh, that's kinda the whole thing about being a criminal isn't it? Ignoring the law.
Don't know anything about the claimed terrorist incident.
You think a devout, church going Catholic is fighting against Christians? You people really are on another level of batshit persecution complex.
This one has some credibility, yes this happened and was a dangerous overstep.

You were financially more secure as the country was locked down? You saw the nation as free as you were locked indoors and people were dying in their thousands? You are complaining that an administration that starts mid crisis took longer to get back to good times than one that stated with good times and ended with crisis? Just how much of those "good times" were Trump's doing? Can you tell me what Trump actually did to benefit you?

If you have issues with unchecked immigration, why are you not angry at Republicans for killing the strongest border bill the USA has had in decades TWICE? A fix was there on the table with the Democrats offering Republicans pretty much everything they wanted and, without even reading the thing, they voted no and you sit there then going "******* Biden". Really? I actually want an answer to this, why are you not angry at Republicans for killing the bill if you claim to care about it?

Ah so green energy forced down your throat is terrible but fossil fuels getting backhanders etc is all ok? Do you know how many tax breaks fossil fuel companies got? I'll give you a clue, it VASTLY eclipses that of green companies.

You really want to accuse the BIDEN administration of refusing to not find common ground when you look at the actions of Trump and the Republicans? Again, utterly delusional. Ah yes, Biden loves big government nanny state. Tell me, which side just decided the government should control a womens bodily autonomy? Yeah, you can **** off.
 
Wow, someone got upset. Was just a back and forth debate there, don't know where your feelings got so hurt. Kind of sad really
 

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