A big sign the Rugby Championship doesn't work

[Immenso]

i have to say im becoming a bit disheartened with SOME NZ fans. I see other sports where you still get then of thousands of fan turn up to watch a team at its lowest point because they like watching the sport (Carlton in the AFL this year for example) and then i see how many kiwi's (not all but more than i would like) only care about winning

What is this observation based on? Super Rugby?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What is this observation based on? Super Rugby?

Both super rugby and the rugby championship, world cups a bit different.

I guess that's why I wonder if the rugby championship is a bit broken, I see how people are stoked for the World Cup but seem a bit blasé for the RC,

 

[unrated]

Both super rugby and the rugby championship, world cups a bit different.

I guess that's why I wonder if the rugby championship is a bit broken, I see how people are stoked for the World Cup but seem a bit blasé for the RC,

RC is not broken nor is Super rugby, every time the Lions has gotten into the Super rugby finals the whole country and all of their rival South African fans got behind them on the Saturday to support them. If they won it would have been big and there would have been parades.

The RC is a bit different, i see it as a traditional competition where we face our traditional rivals, the joy comes in playing these teams weekly instead of just winning a trophy. We celebrate wins over especially the Abs furiously but Aus will also be the cause for jubilation as South Africans tend not to like the Australians (Well those still living in South Africa).

I think what your problem is in NZ is you guys just win this **** too much and its becoming meaningless. A barren spell of about 4 years will do NZ wonders and if they win it again for the first time in 4 years they will be ecstatic.
I must say the health of rugby in NZ is concerning me. You guys are in a golden age, your super rugby teams are constantly winning and so is the All Blacks, and the SA sides are suffering (at the hand of the performing NZ sides) but even in these times where our rugby is not very healthy and yours is, your crowds are concerning, ours too but we are not in a golden age and still get better TV viewer and match attendance numbers. Our stadiums might look more empty but the numbers attending still averages about 16000 for the big unions. If NZ has this poor attendance in a golden age what will happen when they experience something such as South Africa in having a difficult bunch of years? will they become a second Australia?

 

[All Black]

....we don't celebrate

winning it means so little, there no parade, little or no welcome back to the team. the whole comp just kind of ends....

Is it different in South Africa when you've won?

It was kind of like that with the Tri Nations as well. The RC is just a minor competition to give us in the SH, a reason to play each other. I don't think any of the teams care too much about the cup any more than just winning their upcoming game. It's as you say - the whole comp just kind of ends and it could be that the teams knowing that the EOYTs is coming up, might also make the teams feel like finishing the RC is just a halftime break as the more work to be done.

 

[Steeler]

is there an end of the year tour squad thread?

squads been named, some intersting choices

 

[User1245]

For me the Tri Nations lost its shine when Argentina were included. Argentina has barely got a mention in the last 3 pages. This inclusion roughly coincided with the general decline of the Wallabies. Before this whoever won the Tri Nations was the best team in the world. Which by default is still the case because of the ABs but it was more competitive back then.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

interesting you say that, i feel the opposite, including Argentina kept me interested for a couple more years, getting to play someone different

 

[Derpus]

For me the Tri Nations lost its shine when Argentina were included. Argentina has barely got a mention in the last 3 pages. This inclusion roughly coincided with the general decline of the Wallabies. Before this whoever won the Tri Nations was the best team in the world. Which by default is still the case because of the ABs but it was more competitive back then.

It wasn't the inclusion of Argentina it was just become uncompetitive because South Africa and Australia let it all slip down the drain. South Africa seem to have picked themselves back up, Australia are only going to get much worse.

 

[User1245]

It wasn't the inclusion of Argentina it was just become uncompetitive because South Africa and Australia let it all slip down the drain. South Africa seem to have picked themselves back up, Australia are only going to get much worse.

I'm saying it was a combination and they happened around the same time. Argentina certainly haven't made the tournament stronger and because of their general decline most years SA and Aus duke it out for 2nd place.

 

[All Black]

I'm saying it was a combination and they happened around the same time. Argentina certainly haven't made the tournament stronger and because of their general decline most years SA and Aus duke it out for 2nd place.

Argentina declining? since the RC they have managed to beat the Wallabies and the Springboks. Did the Pumas beat the Boks and Wallabies more often before the RC and now that they're in the RC, they aren't beating those 2 nations as often, is that the decline you speak of?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Argentina declining? since the RC they have managed to beat the Wallabies and the Springboks. Did the Pumas beat the Boks and Wallabies more often before the RC and now that they're in the RC, they aren't beating those 2 nations as often, is that the decline you speak of?

Well he did say most years...

You seem to forget that since the RC started, the other teams managed to rake in the points against the Argies. I remember that one game where SA scored about 70+ points against them.

I think it's just been the past 3 years where Argentina have managed to get a win against Aus and SA...

 

[SomeOke]

The argument that Argentina are devaluing the tournament can be empirically proven false - the 6N has Italy and is still exciting.
What matters is that the tournament itself is up for grabs, and there is more than one team that can win it.

Don't get me wrong the RC isn't irredeemable, we just need SA and Aus to catch up to NZ (maybe even Arg who knows), that may seem impossible at the moment but nothing lasts forever, unless you believe that both Aus and SA are on irreversible downward spirals.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The argument that Argentina are devaluing the tournament can be empirically proven false - the 6N has Italy and is still exciting.
What matters is that the tournament itself is up for grabs, and there is more than one team that can win it.

Don't get me wrong the RC isn't irredeemable, we just need SA and Aus to catch up to NZ (maybe even Arg who knows), that may seem impossible at the moment but nothing lasts forever, unless you believe that both Aus and SA are on irreversible downward spirals.

I wholeheartedly agree.

But the big difference between 6N and RC which is perhaps forgotten by the NH fellows is the big travelling issue. But again, I don't want to go into the whole SH vs NH debate.

I think one thing that might level the playing field is when they change the schedule to level the amount of weeks each team is on the road. Because clearly the schedule is currently favouring the champions...

 

[All Black]

Well he did say most years...

You seem to forget that since the RC started, the other teams managed to rake in the points against the Argies. I remember that one game where SA scored about 70+ points against them.

I think it's just been the past 3 years where Argentina have managed to get a win against Aus and SA...

Fair point but I don't think thats a decline. In the last 3 years the Pumas have managed to close the gap and actually beat former world champion teams in the RC.

I watch the Pumas now and I can't tell you that they are declining. I seriously can't say that.

 

[User1245]

Argentina declining? since the RC they have managed to beat the Wallabies and the Springboks. Did the Pumas beat the Boks and Wallabies more often before the RC and now that they're in the RC, they aren't beating those 2 nations as often, is that the decline you speak of?

I'm not saying Argentina have declined, I'm saying SA and Aus have.

 

[All Black]

I'm not saying Argentina have declined, I'm saying SA and Aus have.

Well you can see below how one can easily think that you said Argentina are on the decline.

...Argentina certainly haven't made the tournament stronger and because of their general decline most years SA and Aus duke it out for 2nd place.

 

[Steeler]

every cycle is in preparation for the world cup

that's the only thing we should be having parades for

 

[Kiwiwomble]

every cycle is in preparation for the world cup

that's the only thing we should be having parades for

that seems a bit boring, only get really excited about something every four years?

how about the Raeburn Shield / TRF Shield, would people get excited if it was a real thing? The Ranfurly Shield adds some excitement to games that might otherwise be a dead rubber

 

[User1245]

Well you can see below how one can easily think that you said Argentina are on the decline.

Yeah I can see that. If you read the post before that I was using it to provide further clarity to Derpus.

The argument that Argentina are devaluing the tournament can be empirically proven false - the 6N has Italy and is still exciting.
What matters is that the tournament itself is up for grabs, and there is more than one team that can win it.

Don't get me wrong the RC isn't irredeemable, we just need SA and Aus to catch up to NZ (maybe even Arg who knows), that may seem impossible at the moment but nothing lasts forever, unless you believe that both Aus and SA are on irreversible downward spirals.

Dunno about the empirical argument. Since TRC was formed in 2012 NZ have won it 6/7 times and Argentina have been last 6/7 times. I have a feeling next year will be the same, with SA and Aus deciding who's 2nd and 3rd. And probably the same the year after that.

I actually enjoyed this TRC, mainly because of the what is hopefully the re-establishment of the rivalry between the Boks and the All Blacks.

However the tournament as a whole is not in a good place when the final standings table is a copy and paste from the year before and will probably be the same the year after.

Edit:

Some stats

TRC Average attendance in 2012 = 45627
TRC Average attendance in 2017 = 30610

NZ win % in TN (1996-2011) = 69%
NZ win % in TRC (2012-2018) = 90%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rugby_Championship

 

[Derpus]

The argument that Argentina are devaluing the tournament can be empirically proven false - the 6N has Italy and is still exciting.
What matters is that the tournament itself is up for grabs, and there is more than one team that can win it.

Don't get me wrong the RC isn't irredeemable, we just need SA and Aus to catch up to NZ (maybe even Arg who knows), that may seem impossible at the moment but nothing lasts forever, unless you believe that both Aus and SA are on irreversible downward spirals.

I have genuine fears that serious mismanagement, in-fighting and parochialism have done irreversible damage to Australian Rugby.

RA and all the state unions are losing lots of money every year, stadiums are empty, etc.

People just turn to a sport that isn't malfunctioning, and there are plenty available in Aus.