41 player all black squad

[Umaga's Witness]

the following:

Props: moody, Tu'inukuafe, perry, lomax, franks, tuungafasi, taavao
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman
Locks: retallick, Whitelock, Barrett, tuipolotu
Loose forwards: squire, Hemopo, frizell, cane, savea, todd, read, papalii, Fifita
Halfbacks: smith, perenara, Weber
First fives: Barrett, mounga, Ione
Midfield: Crotty, goodhue, leinert-brown, Williams, Laumape
Outside backs: Ione, smith, bridge, Barrett, naholo, Reece, ennor

 

[Larksea]

its likely crotty and scott B will be left out due to injuries.
Laumape could be the big winner with crotty out for 8 weeks or so. But you could also argue that laumape's form could have started to see him get above Goodhue in the pecking order. Granted they will both be in an extended squad.
I can see Moli getting selected, he's been a part of the squad. Hes seen as an important project player and he had also been playing very well, also be a big call to leave laulala out. prop selection is always interesting.
Coltman has had a good season, good enough to dislodge Harris? I dont think so, pretty even really and Harris is the more established player.

I like Bridge ahead of Havili as well, if Naholo can find some more form that would be great. An in form Naholo would be just what the AB's need this year otherwise we do have a bit of an open position on the right wing for Reece or even jordie Barrett to make a home for the WC. one guy I think the selectors should seriously consider is solomon alaimalo. He hasn't racked up tries like Reece & Ennor but he has created and setup a lot of tries has played mostly fullback this year and he seemed to score tries at a greater rate when he was on the wing, he has great skills and unlike most of the wing options we have he's genuinely big, athletic and seriously fast, easily one of the fastest in the NZ game. He's not a standout contender but to me he looks like a player well suited to test rugby. Just his size and speed along with the vision and skillset he has hints to me like we would see him at his best in the AB's. I know its one game but look back at that Chiefs vs. Crusaders game, he made some big plays that turned into critical moments in the game and well and truly put his crusaders counterparts in the shade.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

its likely crotty and scott B will be left out due to injuries.
Laumape could be the big winner with crotty out for 8 weeks or so. But you could also argue that laumape's form could have started to see him get above Goodhue in the pecking order. Granted they will both be in an extended squad.
I can see Moli getting selected, he's been a part of the squad. Hes seen as an important project player and he had also been playing very well, also be a big call to leave laulala out. prop selection is always interesting.
Coltman has had a good season, good enough to dislodge Harris? I dont think so, pretty even really and Harris is the more established player.

I like Bridge ahead of Havili as well, if Naholo can find some more form that would be great. An in form Naholo would be just what the AB's need this year otherwise we do have a bit of an open position on the right wing for Reece or even jordie Barrett to make a home for the WC. one guy I think the selectors should seriously consider is solomon alaimalo. He hasn't racked up tries like Reece & Ennor but he has created and setup a lot of tries has played mostly fullback this year and he seemed to score tries at a greater rate when he was on the wing, he has great skills and unlike most of the wing options we have he's genuinely big, athletic and seriously fast, easily one of the fastest in the NZ game. He's not a standout contender but to me he looks like a player well suited to test rugby. Just his size and speed along with the vision and skillset he has hints to me like we would see him at his best in the AB's. I know its one game but look back at that Chiefs vs. Crusaders game, he made some big plays that turned into critical moments in the game and well and truly put his crusaders counterparts in the shade.

Didn't realise those guys were injured, how long is Barrett out for?

Maybe they name 39?

Agree re alaimalo, he is also very good in the air. You don't usually get the X factor runners also being great in the air. I don't think they'll pick him though, just too fresh. I haven't really noticed how good Reece is in the air, but my impression of ennor is he's reasonably good but not spectacular.

The prop selections will be tough I think. Laulala before he got injured was our best scrummaging tighthead, but I'm not sure he has come back to form enough. Good point about Moli, he does have an all round game, which is why I was predicting Ta'avao.

I think Coltman will make it ahead of Harris because Harris can miss some easy tackles at times.

I'd like to see Romano in there but think that's unlikely.

It will be interesting to see what hansen says to the inevitable question of who is your third best ten. He'll definitely take Ione, but will he say someone like Jordie Barrett is in with a chance of being number three, or even Tj. I personally am unconvinced that Jordie has anywhere near a good enough passing game to play 10. And earlier in the year when the canes had a few injuries it was tj, not Jordie that was given the role of reserve ten. Didn't get any minutes in that position unfortunately.

 

[Larksea]

yeah I'm the same about reece sure it raining tries but is he the type of player we want in world cup finals? A winger has got to be able to finish but I think for world cups a wingers #1 priority is to be a first class defender and be well above average under the high ball. I dont see that with Reece and its not as important in super rugby. if he is wearing 14 in big games against eng, ire & sa he's going to get high balls heading his way with lots of pressure to boot. Seen some good high ball skills from bridge but nothing beats being near 2m tall had having he leap alaimalo has when it comes to taking the high ones. Attack and defense.

I think I read scott 6 weeks with broken finger and Crotty closer to 8 weeks with a thumb

 

[Larksea]

well here it is

Hookers

Asafo Aumua (22, Hurricanes / Wellington, uncapped)
Dane Coles (32, Hurricanes / Wellington, 60)
Liam Coltman (29, Highlanders / Otago, 4)
Codie Taylor (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 41)

Props

Owen Franks (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 106)
Nepo Laulala (27, Chiefs / Counties Manukau, 17)
Joe Moody (30, Crusaders /Canterbury, 37)
Atu Moli (24, Chiefs / Tasman, uncapped)
Angus Ta'avao (29, Chiefs / Taranaki, 3)
Karl Tu'inukuafe (26, Blues / North Harbour, 13)
Ofa Tuungafasi (27, Blues / Auckland, 26)

Locks

Brodie Retallick (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 75)
Patrick Tuipulotu (26, Blues / Auckland, 21)
Samuel Whitelock (30, Crusaders / Canterbury, 108)

Utility Forward

Jackson Hemopo (25, Highlanders / Manawatu,3)

Loose Forwards

Sam Cane (27, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 60)
Vaea Fifita (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 9)
Shannon Frizell (25, Highlanders / Tasman, 4)
Luke Jacobson (22, Chiefs / Waikato, new cap)
Dalton Papalii (21, Blues / Auckland, 2)
Kieran Read (33, Crusaders / Counties Manukau, 118) — Captain
Ardie Savea (25, Hurricanes / Wellington, 35)
Matt Todd (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 17)

Backs:

Halfbacks

TJ Perenara (27, Hurricanes / Wellington, 55)
Aaron Smith (30, Highlanders / Manawatu, 82)
Brad Weber (28, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 1)

First five–eighths

Beauden Barrett (28, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 73)
Josh Ioane (23, Highlanders / Otago, new cap)
Richie Mo'unga (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 9)

Midfielders

Jack Goodhue (24, Crusaders / Northland, 7)
Ngani Laumape (26, Hurricanes / Manawatu, 10)
Anton Lienert-Brown (24, Chiefs / Waikato, 33)
Sonny Bill Williams (33, Blues / Counties Manukau, 51)

Utility Backs

Braydon Ennor (21, Crusaders / Canterbury, new cap)
Jordie Barrett (22, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 9)

Outside backs

George Bridge (24, Crusaders / Canterbury, 1)
Rieko Ioane (22, Blues / Auckland, 24)
Sevu Reece (22, Crusaders / Waikato, new cap)
Ben Smith (33, Highlanders /Otago, 76)

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Apparently squire said he wasn't ready for international rugby. I'm not sure what that means, I guess he didn't see himself getting sufficient game time if in the all blacks squad and he'll play other rugby instead?

The two biggest surprises are Luke Jacobson (good call but I didn't expect it) and no naholo.
Jacobson perhaps only came in after squire made himself unavailable.

Lomax isn't there which is a bit of a surprise given how well he has scrummed in super rugby. But tough picks and they've gone for laulala who has been exceptional scrummaging in the past. Hopefully he can return to form.

 

[Larksea]

crazy, Squire has been a major investment this WC cycle. pretty big call for him to be all "thanks but no thanks" when the big show is about to start.
At the same time if he feels he's not physically or mentally up to it then maybe its a good thing he's pulling out.

In light of that Jacobson does seem like a good replacement, he has had some pretty special form. Dalton Papalii may consider himself lucky as well I would hardly call him a set selection. You got options like Tom Robinson, Jordan Taufua, Whetu Douglas actually Gareth Evans is pretty unlucky when you think about it.
I like the idea of scott barrett being an option at 6 for those bigger games later on, as a big game player who has been tested and has all the skills to cover 6. But you need to give a specialist a chance to emerge as a genuine test player first. Scott is super mobile while just being a shade small to be a true test lock in the mold of Sam & Brodie or even Patrick.

Good to see Weber back but it does beg the question... Will the WC squad of 31 have 3 halfbacks? 3 in this squad if 41... How is Aaron Smith's form? TJ and Weber are in fantastic form is Smith under pressure?
It's not easy to stare at that 41 man squad and cut 10 players... When you actually have to cut 12 because barrett and Crotty will come back in...

 

[Umaga's Witness]

So it was what I guessed except
aumua instead of naholo,
Jacobson instead of squire (which I like)
Moli instead of perry (which I agreed with in retrospect after laksea's comment) and
laulala instead of lomax (which was probably the position I was least sure about)

If it was me picking it would have been very similar, but I would have picked
naholo instead of aumua (don't reckon they need 4 hookers and aumuas lineoit throwing is atrocious)
Romano instead of tuipolotu
Lomax instead of laulala maybe (I really don't know)
Thomson instead of sbw
Havili instead of Jordie
Alaimalo instead of Reece

 

[Umaga's Witness]

crazy, Squire has been a major investment this WC cycle. pretty big call for him to be all "thanks but no thanks" when the big show is about to start.
At the same time if he feels he's not physically or mentally up to it then maybe its a good thing he's pulling out.

In light of that Jacobson does seem like a good replacement, he has had some pretty special form. Dalton Papalii may consider himself lucky as well I would hardly call him a set selection. You got options like Tom Robinson, Jordan Taufua, Whetu Douglas actually Gareth Evans is pretty unlucky when you think about it.
I like the idea of scott barrett being an option at 6 for those bigger games later on, as a big game player who has been tested and has all the skills to cover 6. But you need to give a specialist a chance to emerge as a genuine test player first. Scott is super mobile while just being a shade small to be a true test lock in the mold of Sam & Brodie or even Patrick.

Good to see Weber back but it does beg the question... Will the WC squad of 31 have 3 halfbacks? 3 in this squad if 41... How is Aaron Smith's form? TJ and Weber are in fantastic form is Smith under pressure?
It's not easy to stare at that 41 man squad and cut 10 players... When you actually have to cut 12 because barrett and Crotty will come back in...

I like Jacobson a lot but wonder if he is a legitimate selection or only because squire is unavailable. He may not even get game time, rather just time in the environment.

I think this squad is about getting all the options for the World Cup squad together. Thenin the World Cup squad a big consideration is that if you get an injury you can either replace that player but then you can't bring them back or you keep them in the squad, injured, until he recovers, which means you need players within the squad to cover. Point being utility is a big factor. They will essentially be picking the 33 based on who their 23 is or what players are still potential for that, then filling the rest with players that are good replacements for injuries while ensuring good coverage across the different positions.

That's why papalii is there, as a 6/7 option. Fifita hemopo and frizell are also 6/5 options.

Scott Barrett too, I think he is actually our best 6 option.

They will take 3 halfbacks to the World Cup, that's pretty standard fare.

 

[Larksea]

ok so its a 39 player squad they have not replaced Barrett or Crotty.

IMO and I get the feeling from what the coaches said that there is no reason to select "development" players in a WC year. No point looking to 2020 heck Hansen wont even be the coach. The guys that are getting selected are in contention for WC selection and with many crusaders players players staying at home for the Argentina trip players like Luke will likely get a run.

Interesting Hansen talking about Akira. Its a shame it may be fair to say he has arguably the most raw talent and natural athletic ability of any loose forward in NZ but he's consistently not putting in the work.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

pretty surprised there is no lomax, really hope they gave him a call to explain why, could see that as a bit of a confidence blow, generally thought is was always in the conversation

squire might be playing the long game, this isn't the WC squad, all he needs is a few more games under his belt and an injury or two in the RC and he'll be back in there

 

[Larksea]

yeah it does seem like the door is not closed for squire who may sit TRC out, rest up play a couple of club/NPC(?) games before having another conversation with the selectors and be back in the frame for Tonga? Hes such a class player if he can get his fitness up work on any ****les he has and get in the right frame of mind it may bell be a masterstroke to get him right for the right time.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The 23 I'd go for of that squad:
1. Moody
2. Taylor
3. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Barrett
7. Cane
8. Read
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Ioane
12. Crotty
13. Goodhue
14. Reece
15. Smith

16. Coles
17. Tu'inukuafe
18. Laulala
19. Frizell
20. Savea
21. Perenara
22. Mo'unga
23. Lienert-Brown

24. Coltman
25. Tu'ungfasi
26. Tuipulotu
27. Todd
28. Weber
29. Ioane
30. Laumape
31. Barrett

 

[mania]

bummed that akira and waisake didnt make it in

 

[Umaga's Witness]

bummed that akira and waisake didnt make it in

Waisake is really surprising , well it isn't surprising because for whatever reason I had a feeling the selectors weren't his biggest fans, so just confusing rather than surprising. He is so good at so many things; the type of all round talent these selectors usually salivate over. He definitely hasn't been anywhere near top form but Jordie Barrett? Really? The guy gets so many more chances than he deserves while a guy like naholo somehow has this negative bias against him. I don't want to say it but it feels like unconscious racism.

Surely if anyone was not going to be prone to unconscious racism it would be all blacks selectors though, they do put a lot of conscious effort into selections.

I went to school in the same year as Jason eaton who played some tests for the all blacks and lefimi mafi who didn't make super rugby but played for Taranaki and then had a successful career at Munster. Commentators and reporters would praise Eaton's intelligence while suggesting mafi wasn't a smart player. I can tell you that mafi was very intelligent to the extent he could have been very successful at uni in maths and physics if he applied himself. Eaton on the other hand was in the developmental class at high school and couldn't have gained uni entrance no matter how much he applied himself.

Why did I post this? Alcohol

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think Jordie gets a lot more hate than he deserves. Is he perfect? No. Is he 22? Yes.

 

[Larksea]

yeah Jordie has earned his spot, he's come along well in some areas but hes not a finished product I personally see him as one of the best options to take over from Ben Smith going forward I'd rather see him focus in 15 where he seems to want to make a name for himself as a midfielder. Hi Height is a huge bonus.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I think Jordie gets a lot more hate than he deserves. Is he perfect? No. Is he 22? Yes.

There's this 3 year old kid who is pretty good for his age. Should he be in the all blacks? Maybe Jordie is good for his age, maybe he will become one of the best ever players. Doesn't mean we should judge him more highly now.

It's not hate, it's disagreement with his treatment by sectors during his career.

He had improved a lot over the second half of this season though.

I won't be surprised if he's a World Cup hero either.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Waisake is really surprising , well it isn't surprising because for whatever reason I had a feeling the selectors weren't his biggest fans, so just confusing rather than surprising. He is so good at so many things; the type of all round talent these selectors usually salivate over. He definitely hasn't been anywhere near top form but Jordie Barrett? Really? The guy gets so many more chances than he deserves while a guy like naholo somehow has this negative bias against him. I don't want to say it but it feels like unconscious racism.

Surely if anyone was not going to be prone to unconscious racism it would be all blacks selectors though, they do put a lot of conscious effort into selections.

I went to school in the same year as Jason eaton who played some tests for the all blacks and lefimi mafi who didn't make super rugby but played for Taranaki and then had a successful career at Munster. Commentators and reporters would praise Eaton's intelligence while suggesting mafi wasn't a smart player. I can tell you that mafi was very intelligent to the extent he could have been very successful at uni in maths and physics if he applied himself. Eaton on the other hand was in the developmental class at high school and couldn't have gained uni entrance no matter how much he applied himself.

Why did I post this? Alcohol

Racism is a big call.... one guy not getting as many chances as another is not a solid basis for that, some would say sbw has had more chances than others, I remember nonu getting loads of chances when he was doing very little in super rugby, both guys seem to step up in the black jersey I'll admit

Definitely favouritism! But I thinks it is person specific

 

[mania]

I don't want to say it but it feels like unconscious racism.

except that waisake was replaced with another fijian?