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2nd Test: South Africa v Lions

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Mathew Rees
03 Adam Jones
04 O'Callaghan
05 O'Connell
06 Croft
07 Martyn Williams
08 Jamie Heaslip

09 Mike Phillips
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe
15 Burne (if fit)

16 Sheridan
17 Mears
18 Alun Wyn-Jones
19 Wallace
20 Mike Blair
21 Hook
22 Kearney

Shane played well tonight, he wouldn't have missed both those tries last week (43 odd tries for Wales says so). I also feel the Lions have gotta go for it, meaning a slight risk. Williams ahead of Wallace as he also played well tonight, Wallace didn't have the best of games last week on the back foot and I think we all know who's the best on the front foot! No room for O'Gara, as I don't see what he brings off the bech, Hook brings some running and attacking threat if we need it and cover for centres. Burne get's another shot if fit, as he was carying an injury last week and he's shown consistently over the last 2 years that he's the best fullback we have. Second row is a tough one, Shaw could easily come in, and Wyn-Jones could easily miss out altogether, we'll see.
 
What with you Brits and Shaw? Seriously? If O'Callaghan had half the hype Shaw gets he'd have been a test cert weeks ago. The only reason not to start him is that in the last 4 days he has played 100 minutes of high intensity rugby. Shaw has looked decent coming off the bench, that's as far as his role in the test side should go.

Williams/Wallace is tight but I'd prefer Wallace up against Burger.

Williams against Fitzgerald is a no brainer really.

Heaslip has had is workload at the breakdown dramatically increased by Croft being picked at 6, so you can't expect him to be making the breaks like he did in the 6N.

The cynic in me says any XV we pick will be beaten handily enough, and the less Irishmen on the field the better, but I still want to see the best 15 players picked, and I think the 15 above is the best 15 players, even though there is nothing between Wallace/Williams and O'Gara and Jones.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 24 2009, 03:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Mathew Rees
03 Adam Jones
04 O'Callaghan
05 O'Connell
06 Croft
07 Martyn Williams
08 Jamie Heaslip

09 Mike Phillips
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe
15 Burne (if fit)

16 Sheridan
17 Mears
18 Alun Wyn-Jones
19 Wallace
20 Mike Blair
21 Hook
22 Kearney

Shane played well tonight, he wouldn't have missed both those tries last week (43 odd tries for Wales says so). I also feel the Lions have gotta go for it, meaning a slight risk. Williams ahead of Wallace as he also played well tonight, Wallace didn't have the best of games last week on the back foot and I think we all know who's the best on the front foot! No room for O'Gara, as I don't see what he brings off the bech, Hook brings some running and attacking threat if we need it and cover for centres. Burne get's another shot if fit, as he was carying an injury last week and he's shown consistently over the last 2 years that he's the best fullback we have. Second row is a tough one, Shaw could easily come in, and Wyn-Jones could easily miss out altogether, we'll see.[/b]


There's one "shadow hanging over Shane" : he is so great that everybody, I htink even opposer teams' fans expect him to crash down their lovely players with his amazing run, tricks and smart play, with tries scored and amazing passes given

So even if Shane does everything good and doesn't light like a "candle of rugby Gods" he will be pressed by a critics ;)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
[/b][/quote]

Nope Heaslip has played poor and the fact that you have now gone aggressive and started swearing has shown me you have clearly lost your rag and im afraid your point is no null and void.

Ha love the comment about Earls ... Williams was attempting to get back ... please just listen to yourself.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 03:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.[/b]

I am not Welsh ;) ;) ;) ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
[/b][/quote]

Nope Heaslip has played poor and the fact that you have now gone aggressive and started swearing has shown me you have clearly lost your rag and im afraid your point is no null and void.

Ha love the comment about Earls ... Williams was attempting to get back ... please just listen to yourself.
[/b][/quote]

Or perhaps **** was the best adjective?

And I'm going to go ahead and disagree on Heaslip. I don't think there's any point in argueing on that. It's a matter of oppinion.

That's exactly what Williams was doing because he was in the wrong position. He's a wing standing at inside centre? A skip pass or kick to the corner. No matter what happened, that was a try because he was out of position. Listen to yourself trying to blame Earls.




EDIT: Everyone who is Welsh and Lekso are willing to forget the _____ of Williams... Sorry for forgeting you Lekso.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
[/b][/quote]

Nope Heaslip has played poor and the fact that you have now gone aggressive and started swearing has shown me you have clearly lost your rag and im afraid your point is no null and void.

Ha love the comment about Earls ... Williams was attempting to get back ... please just listen to yourself.
[/b][/quote]

Or perhaps **** was the best adjective?

And I'm going to go ahead and disagree on Heaslip. I don't think there's any point in argueing on that. It's a matter of oppinion.

That's exactly what Williams was doing because he was in the wrong position. He's a wing standing at inside centre? A skip pass or kick to the corner. No matter what happened, that was a try because he was out of position. Listen to yourself trying to blame Earls.
[/b][/quote]

So who did Earls take out then?

Oh no wait it weren't Shane Williams it was someone else. Mate go and take your tinted Munster glasses off and pick up a dictionary.
 
Seriously, there is no way Williams should start Saturday. One slightly above average performance against relatively poor opposition doesn't change the fact that he hasn't played well in ages, actually when was the last time he even scored a try, after playing in pretty much every non test game? Fitzgerald is a better defender, better under the high ball, in better form, not as selfish and pretty much just better.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
[/b][/quote]

Nope Heaslip has played poor and the fact that you have now gone aggressive and started swearing has shown me you have clearly lost your rag and im afraid your point is no null and void.

Ha love the comment about Earls ... Williams was attempting to get back ... please just listen to yourself.
[/b][/quote]

Or perhaps **** was the best adjective?

And I'm going to go ahead and disagree on Heaslip. I don't think there's any point in argueing on that. It's a matter of oppinion.

That's exactly what Williams was doing because he was in the wrong position. He's a wing standing at inside centre? A skip pass or kick to the corner. No matter what happened, that was a try because he was out of position. Listen to yourself trying to blame Earls.
[/b][/quote]

So who did Earls take out then?

Oh no wait it weren't Shane Williams it was someone else. Mate go and take your tinted Munster glasses off and pick up a dictionary.
[/b][/quote]

I think you'll find I'd need a thesauras if you're complaining about limited alternatives for the word '****'. Oh and wait....I think we've been through this...he took out nobody. The wing who decided that he's no longer competant at wing decided to play centre....forgot he never handed in his two weeks notice and rushed back to work but unfortunately crashed into the person who was doing his job on the way because....wait for it....he wasn't meant to be there in the first place.

You know its been said that some of the greatest authors of all time had poor vocabulary and bad grammer but all that matters is that they could tell a great story. They have editors to do the rest for them. Crymo. You can be my editor.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 24 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Seriously, there is no way Williams should start Saturday. One slightly above average performance against relatively poor opposition doesn't change the fact that he hasn't played well in ages, actually when was the last time he even scored a try, after playing in pretty much every non test game? Fitzgerald is a better defender, better under the high ball, in better form, not as selfish and pretty much just better.[/b]

Sorry Fitzgerald is on the same par as Williams. Williams has tackled well, ran good lines and done good under the high ball so you cannot poo poo Williams through any of that. Again this shows how blatantly biased you are. Its quite rich calling me biased towards Welsh players but you are doing exactly the same.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Jun 24 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.
[/b][/quote]

Blatant Munster tinted glasses I see.

Earls ran into Williams for that second try and stop him making the tackle, S4C coverage mentioned this. He was also moved onto the opposite wing second half which he is never comfortable in. Sorry are you also forgetting Williams managed to rip that ball in the tackle? Turn over to save an attempt at a try by the Boks? Nit picking at losing the ball in the second half shows that you are really lacking in any attack towards Williams. And he had to come into the centre to stop the tackler but as I said Earls got in his way!

Heaslip has been poor on tour yes hes played ok in games but he was truly poor in the First Test.
[/b][/quote]

Heaslip has played been the best backrow outside of Ferris adn Croft on tour so you clearly have it in for him or something.

Nothing to do with Munster tinted glasses when Williams pushes earls out of the line in teh sudden desparation to get back to where he should be.

And how quick every WElsh person is to forgive you of **** rugby from Williams and an epically **** tour by one match where he was little better than average.
[/b][/quote]

Nope Heaslip has played poor and the fact that you have now gone aggressive and started swearing has shown me you have clearly lost your rag and im afraid your point is no null and void.

Ha love the comment about Earls ... Williams was attempting to get back ... please just listen to yourself.
[/b][/quote]

Or perhaps **** was the best adjective?

And I'm going to go ahead and disagree on Heaslip. I don't think there's any point in argueing on that. It's a matter of oppinion.

That's exactly what Williams was doing because he was in the wrong position. He's a wing standing at inside centre? A skip pass or kick to the corner. No matter what happened, that was a try because he was out of position. Listen to yourself trying to blame Earls.
[/b][/quote]

So who did Earls take out then? thesaurus

Oh no wait it weren't Shane Williams it was someone else. Mate go and take your tinted Munster glasses off and pick up a dictionary.
[/b][/quote]

I think you'll find I'd need a thesauras if you're complaining about limited alternatives for the word '****'. Oh and wait....I think we've been through this...he took out nobody. The wing who decided that he's no longer competant at wing decided to play centre....forgot he never handed in his two weeks notice and rushed back to work but unfortunately crashed into the person who was doing his job on the way because....wait for it....he wasn't meant to be there in the first place.

You know its been said that some of the greatest authors of all time had poor vocabulary and bad grammer but all that matters is that they could tell a great story. They have editors to do the rest for them. Crymo. You can be my editor.
[/b][/quote]

Note:

thesaurus
competent
Cymro
grammar

If you think spelling my name incorrectly is a funny joke its not and don't say it was done by accident because it clearly was not. Have some respect for staff. Oh and continue to swear before you find yourself being punished. This forum is a family one and swear words are not tolerated.

Mate leave it because im not speaking to someone who is completely arrogant and biased.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 24 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seriously, there is no way Williams should start Saturday. One slightly above average performance against relatively poor opposition doesn't change the fact that he hasn't played well in ages, actually when was the last time he even scored a try, after playing in pretty much every non test game? Fitzgerald is a better defender, better under the high ball, in better form, not as selfish and pretty much just better.[/b]

Sorry Fitzgerald is on the same par as Williams. Williams has tackled well, ran good lines and done good under the high ball so you cannot poo poo Williams through any of that. Again this shows how blatantly biased you are. Its quite rich calling me biased towards Welsh players but you are doing exactly the same.
[/b][/quote]

Normally I'm not the kind of guy to point out grammatical mistakes, but that one was a bit ironic considering the rest of your post ;)

I never said you were biased, but I'll take that as a confession. I think it's natural we'll favour the players we have seen more off, but I have seen enough of Shane to know he is not good enough, he was lucky to be picked for the tour in the first place, has been consistently shite for ages, couldn't buy a try, closest he has come to an assist was the intercept pass to Demas against the Cheetahs.

Luke hasn't been in great form either, but has looked more dangerous in the two games he has got on the wing compared to Shanes 5 or 6.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Note:

thesaurus
competent
Cymro
grammar

If you think spelling my name incorrectly is a funny joke its not and don't say it was done by accident because it clearly was not. Have some respect for staff. Oh and continue to swear before you find yourself being punished. This forum is a family one and swear words are not tolerated.

Mate leave it because im not speaking to someone who is completely arrogant and biased.[/b]

I apologise for spelling your name wrong and cussing. The name was a typo. I never mean to offend. That apology is sincere.

I've intended on stopping some time ago and was in somewhat of a rush, so I again apologise for the heinous sin that is 'typos'. That apology was not sincere. Typos happen. Big deal..

I have respect for everyone here, not just the staff so I think it's fair to say that it works both ways. call me bias if you wish because everyone here is, you included (I'm sure you'll admit it). It's a natural thing. But don't call me arrogant. Everything I say was based on what I saw and if you see it differently then fair enough. But don't put it down to arrogance.
 
Done good ... OMG ... Boy done good makes sense and so does done good under high ball. Even Microsoft Word does not pick it up.
 
I'm pretty sure theres bias from both parties here and you guys are too stubborn to admit it. Cymro, Williams hasn't scored all tour as far as I can remember and one half decent performance against a team of kids shouldn't see him anywhere near the 22. Fitzy has been playing better throughout the tour and was very close to starting in any case.

Heaslip, well meh, we got no choice really, who else are we gonna put in there.

If Byrne is fit he'll play but Kearney would be more than an adequate replacement IMO.

Guys do you not think that neither of ye can really accuse the other of bias when Munsterman wants Irish players and Cymro wants Welsh players. It's no shock so stop bickering...or else
al-hakim-shaking-fist.jpg
 
Sorry, but I can't see how they can look at starting Williams ( Of the Shane variety ). He did make a couple of nice breaks, but never on this tour has he looked to offload the ball to support when he does, he just gets scragged. This happens especially when he comes off his wing, Compare that to Bowe when he has stepped off the wing on this tour and look at the offloads he has made.

Williams was a great player but this is possibly one tour to far.

I'm going to go with Fitz on the left.

Also one other point, Some one said something about Williams had been swapped to the opposite wing later in the game so thats why he didn't look comfortable,, Wasn't that the left wing,, Where he would be playing in the Test? Unless it's now being suggested he would replace Bowe on the right? Madness.

This is an opinion,, not a fuse.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daylightfire @ Jun 24 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sorry, but I can't see how they can look at starting Williams ( Of the Shane variety ). He did make a couple of nice breaks, but never on this tour has he looked to offload the ball to support when he does, he just gets scragged. This happens especially when he comes off his wing, Compare that to Bowe when he has stepped off the wing on this tour and look at the offloads he has made.

Williams was a great player but this is possibly one tour to far.

I'm going to go with Fitz on the left.

Also one other point, Some one said something about Williams had been swapped to the opposite wing later in the game so thats why he didn't look comfortable,, Wasn't that the left wing,, Where he would be playing in the Test? Unless it's now being suggested he would replace Bowe on the right? Madness.

This is an opinion,, not a fuse.[/b]

yeah saw that, last time I checked Williams played most of his rugby on the left wing, once he was switched there he didn't look as comfortable which was quite worrying considering that's where he'd be picked for the test. Fitzgerald is the right option but I still think Monye might get another go.
 
Dont know why you'd bother debating it at all. Its clear as day that Williams shouldnt get anywhere near the test side. We've all been nice about his lack of form up to now, but he's just not playing well. Being able to catch a ball in wet weather is not as awesome as Barnes would have you believe. He did sod all yesterday, and has ample opportunities on tour and done nothing. Stop the debate, its dead.

Whether Fitzgerald deserves to get in ahead of Monye is another matter entirely and its not clear cut at all. I kinda agree with evans post match comments yesterday when he said this is a test tour and if you cant finish three chances at this level you dont deserve another shot at it. Either way both Monye and Fitzgerald are miles ahead of Williams.

As for the match itself, gonna need something very very special from the Lions to give them a chance. The final 20 minutes from last Saturday shouldnt gloss over what happened in the first 50. As for the backs, a mistake to keep the same midfield but maybe they will address the defensive frailties in training.
 
Hello everyone, this is my first post on the forum!

Im in the Fitzgerald camp. Williams' best days are behind him in my opinion. If Byrne is fit then Kearney should play 11.
The team Im hoping for:
15 Byrne 14 Bowe 13 BOD 12 Roberts 11 Kearney 10 Jones 9 Phillips
8 Heaslip 7 Wallace 6 Croft 5 POC 4 Shaw 3 Jones 2 Rees 1 Jenkins
Subs: Mears, Vickery, O'Callaghan, Williams, Ellis, O'Gara, Earls
If Byrne doesn't make it.. Kearney to 15 and Fitzgerald on the wing.

Martyn Williams and O'Callaghan both to be used as impact subs
Earls and O'Gara late on
Mears and Vickery should be shot.....

The biggest blow to the Lions on this tour was Jerry Flannery's injury!!
 
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