[2025 Six Nations] Wales vs England - 15/3/25

[dirty harry]

Leaving aside the whole combined team thing is a load of ******** if you would have 6 Welsh players out of 15 then by definition we should be competitive, no? This was the problem, Italy weren't just beating us, they were outplaying us on every facet of the game to the point where we looked a tier below. Georgia were objectively better than us under Gatland and I wouldn't have bet against a Yemen B team beating us.

I mentioned in the last post, but what did you think about games like Australia where Kerevi got sent off and we still got pumped by 50.

No, Italy beat us in every facet because their playing staff are superior. Georgia never lost to us under Gatland, infact he beat them handily with a weakened team at the RWC. So objectively Wales have been better than Georgia under Gatland, subjectively Georgia may be better than us now, I would watch that game whether under Gatland or Sheratt from behind the sofa.

Vs Australia we had a very poor playing staff out, as usual, what's the issue with that? We were blown away in 20 mins 3 or 4 tries if I remember correctly, and weren't even good enough to capitalise on the red.

What your not taking into account is all the BS that went along with Gats 2nd reign, Players threatening to quit, players retiring randomly, the WRU have been on at least 3 apology tours, brought in perennial failure from the British government Abi from passports, had a number of humiliating in fights, bungled a new top tier league system, introduced 478 new management groups to do something, and watched across the border as fighting broke out about the stupid tackle height law and thought, we can **** up rugby more if we try that out!

Now once again, I can defend Gats to a point, especially around the ignorance of his Chiefs job, and his first season as 2nd stint was more than solid, he consolidated a **** show of a squad and provided a much better RWC than anyone thought was possible in Jan of that year, then a lot of things happened behind the scenes, Howley returned, Gats didn't have the talent to work with he did the first time, and he became frustrated and ultimately deserved to go...

Let's be honest with ourselves, the Welsh job isn't about being successful, it's about surviving the WRU.

 

[dirty harry]

Does anyone else think this is a ridiculous statement?

Do we have "poor units"? I'd say not

Confused style of play? id say predictable quite boring kick style with some attack starting to shape vs italy? But not confused.

Don't get me wrong we arnt world beaters and these players can get better and have a better game plan but poor units in the worst England team in years is daft IMO.

OK, I get what your saying, but when your head coach and senior players are talking about play styles, but ultimately resort to a different playing style, does that seem coherent?

Let's be honest, England had some poor squads in the later 2000s, they seemed to return in the 2010s, had a few decent years and a few dodgy, but in the last 2/3 years things have got a bit bare...

England still have some top quality players, but there are a few that raise the eyebrow, players outbof position, not playing particularly well etc... a 13 at 12, 13 at 11, 10 at 15 , your 8 is your centre cover etc...

Now I think these will all be fine against Wales, and infact kicking wise is a good strategy, but England are nowhere near Ireland, SA, NZ levels... even losing to Aus last Autumn was poor.

Now I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying for Englands usual high standards they aren't very good

 

[Welsh Exile]

No, Italy beat us in every facet because their playing staff are superior. Georgia never lost to us under Gatland, infact he beat them handily with a weakened team at the RWC. So objectively Wales have been better than Georgia under Gatland, subjectively Georgia may be better than us now, I would watch that game whether under Gatland or Sheratt from behind the sofa.

Vs Australia we had a very poor playing staff out, as usual, what's the issue with that? We were blown away in 20 mins 3 or 4 tries if I remember correctly, and weren't even good enough to capitalise on the red.

What your not taking into account is all the BS that went along with Gats 2nd reign, Players threatening to quit, players retiring randomly, the WRU have been on at least 3 apology tours, brought in perennial failure from the British government Abi from passports, had a number of humiliating in fights, bungled a new top tier league system, introduced 478 new management groups to do something, and watched across the border as fighting broke out about the stupid tackle height law and thought, we can **** up rugby more if we try that out!

Now once again, I can defend Gats to a point, especially around the ignorance of his Chiefs job, and his first season as 2nd stint was more than solid, he consolidated a **** show of a squad and provided a much better RWC than anyone thought was possible in Jan of that year, then a lot of things happened behind the scenes, Howley returned, Gats didn't have the talent to work with he did the first time, and he became frustrated and ultimately deserved to go...

Let's be honest with ourselves, the Welsh job isn't about being successful, it's about surviving the WRU.

You just said 6 out of the 15 would be Welsh so why are they outperforming us in every facet. This isn't NZ we're talking about here mate.

I was referring to the world rankings re Georgia being objectively better than us.

 

[IT157]

OK, I get what your saying, but when your head coach and senior players are talking about play styles, but ultimately resort to a different playing style, does that seem coherent?

Let's be honest, England had some poor squads in the later 2000s, they seemed to return in the 2010s, had a few decent years and a few dodgy, but in the last 2/3 years things have got a bit bare...

England still have some top quality players, but there are a few that raise the eyebrow, players outbof position, not playing particularly well etc... a 13 at 12, 13 at 11, 10 at 15 , your 8 is your centre cover etc...

Now I think these will all be fine against Wales, and infact kicking wise is a good strategy, but England are nowhere near Ireland, SA, NZ levels... even losing to Aus last Autumn was poor.

Now I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying for Englands usual high standards they aren't very good

Btw, why don't you think Marcus Smith is a good player?

 

[Scotty]

OK, I get what your saying, but when your head coach and senior players are talking about play styles, but ultimately resort to a different playing style, does that seem coherent?

Let's be honest, England had some poor squads in the later 2000s, they seemed to return in the 2010s, had a few decent years and a few dodgy, but in the last 2/3 years things have got a bit bare...

England still have some top quality players, but there are a few that raise the eyebrow, players outbof position, not playing particularly well etc... a 13 at 12, 13 at 11, 10 at 15 , your 8 is your centre cover etc...

Now I think these will all be fine against Wales, and infact kicking wise is a good strategy, but England are nowhere near Ireland, SA, NZ levels... even losing to Aus last Autumn was poor.

Now I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying for Englands usual high standards they aren't very good

I'd put us 5th in rankings behind Ireland NZ SA and France, but not a no where near we've pushed all of them close. Yes bad loss to Aus they stepped up their game and beat us, that doesn't mean they are ahead of us, same as we arnt ahead of Scotland

I'd say most of our pack are playing well and we are closing out this games alot more than the autumn.

We are by no means perfect or the finished article but we have a pretty settled squad with a few injuries to come back and some young guys looking good for the future.

But I'd say this is the best England has looked in years tbh. And most of the players are stepping up and 2 years out of from the WC we can get there.

Who isn't performing then in your opinion? Or is weak?

Also yeah they talk about play style we need to build on this kicking style and add a strong attack to use the field position.

I just thing your comment about being worst England team was daft because we are better than autumn and getting there even if it's not as quick as we want.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mad how if they hadn't have sacked Gatland and they had had FAIR referees then Wales would be on for a grandslam this weekend

 

[Reiser99]

I'd put us 5th in rankings behind Ireland NZ SA and France, but not a no where near we've pushed all of them close. Yes bad loss to Aus they stepped up their game and beat us, that doesn't mean they are ahead of us, same as we arnt ahead of Scotland

I'd say most of our pack are playing well and we are closing out this games alot more than the autumn.

We are by no means perfect or the finished article but we have a pretty settled squad with a few injuries to come back and some young guys looking good for the future.

But I'd say this is the best England has looked in years tbh. And most of the players are stepping up and 2 years out of from the WC we can get there.

Who isn't performing then in your opinion? Or is weak?

Also yeah they talk about play style we need to build on this kicking style and add a strong attack to use the field position.

I just thing your comment about being worst England team was daft because we are better than autumn and getting there even if it's not as quick as we want.

I'd say you're very generous. Scotland should have beaten us. Yeah, I know they didn't, but if we were to play again right now then France would definitely beat us and Scotland probably would as well. We got lucky against both.

Maybe England are on an upward curve, but saying we're the best of the rest is premature.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Why is there a fight about Ita vs Wales in here

 

[Jimbo]

I forgot about Elliot another speedster

Slightly younger but Jack Bracken looks a very good prospect. Quick and surprisingly strong in the carry

He does indeed but a little lightweight for international at the moment, I'm not saying you need to be huge clearly there was Robinson and Shane Williams as well as some notable South African wingers but they all had a bit more foot with exceptional pace and agility, that doesn't so much seem to be Jack Bracken's style he does well in contact but at that age grade they aren't the same size as some of the senior units.

 

[Jimbo]

Easier said than done when rocking about at 10-15% bf but shifting a bit of weight would surely go along way. No FB needs to be walking around at (reportedly) 105kg.

Steward's strengths caused us so much trouble in the 1st half in Dublin but the weaknesses outweighed them in the end.

Outside of being exceptionally good under the high ball he literally has no attributes suited to a 15 (doesn't read the game particularly well or have the pace to make up for it) I'd also say pick most players of his height at 15 and with some training would look very good under the high ball, IMO he should look at playing 12 the England setup is clearly not the place to look at doing that, it's exactly the transition Henshaw went through and for my money has been one of the best centres in the current era, that's whilst competing for a place against some fairly accomplished centres and having more than his fair share of injuries, what a player.

 

[dirty harry]

I'd put us 5th in rankings behind Ireland NZ SA and France, but not a no where near we've pushed all of them close. Yes bad loss to Aus they stepped up their game and beat us, that doesn't mean they are ahead of us, same as we arnt ahead of Scotland

I'd say most of our pack are playing well and we are closing out this games alot more than the autumn.

We are by no means perfect or the finished article but we have a pretty settled squad with a few injuries to come back and some young guys looking good for the future.

But I'd say this is the best England has looked in years tbh. And most of the players are stepping up and 2 years out of from the WC we can get there.

Who isn't performing then in your opinion? Or is weak?

Also yeah they talk about play style we need to build on this kicking style and add a strong attack to use the field position.

I just thing your comment about being worst England team was daft because we are better than autumn and getting there even if it's not as quick as we want.

I mean this is the same squad from the autumn's...

And my comment was on squad quality, England havnt won the tournament since what 2020?

Let's be honest, outside of what, Genge, Itoje, Curry, are there any other guaranteed lions?

I'm not slating England for being bad, I'm saying they aren't at their usual high standard

 

[dirty harry]

Why is there a fight about Ita vs Wales in here

There isn't, Italy are better, @Welsh Exile should just concede and move on no?